Pagan Rituals and Worship that came into the Catholic church.

[Hobie]

The Catholic practice of venerating saints grew out of the worship of pagan gods, what can only be called demon spirits, and the worship of the dead as we see with dead ancestors. We see the Pope doing this in the open, and yet Christians stay silent. The burning incense during worship comes from ancient Greek, Roman, and Egyptian temples burning fragrant incense to please the gods with the smoke seen as purifying. Some think Easter celebrates Jesus’ resurrection and rebirth, but take a look at the Easter symbols like rabbits and eggs which were from the pagan belief of fertility, and worship of the solar solstice and spring. The use of relics, or worship at shrines containing saints’ relics in hopes of being blessed, healed, or rewarded by the Gods is from the pagans worship of revered objects associated with their gods. It just goes on and on, to say nothing of worship of the 'Queen of Heaven', which comes of pagan goddess worship. The Easter “buns” were used in the worship of the 'Queen of Heaven' and is documented in history and the Bible. As early as the days of Cecrops, the founder of Athens, way before the Roman Empire and we see the prophet Jeremiah take notice of this pagan worship,

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Jeremiah 44:19
And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

Jeremiah 44:25
24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:
25 ;Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
26 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the Lord, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord God liveth.

Who is the Queen of Heaven? - Answer The Bible

The term "Queen of Heaven" appears only twice in the Bible, both times in the book of Jeremiah. The context shows that this refers to a pagan goddess named

www.answerthebible.com

The pagan origins of three Catholic practices

A few traditions in the Roman Catholic Church can be traced back to pagan cults, rites, and deities.

bigthink.com

 

[mattfivefour]

Regarding incense: yes, it was used in pagan worship as the above article mentions; but it was also continually burned before the veil in the Jewish temple, in worship of God.

 

[Hol]

Regarding incense: yes, it was used in pagan worship as the above article mentions; but it was also continually burned before the veil in the Jewish temple, in worship of God.

I’ve never been to RCC mass, but I’ve wondered about their use of incense, elaborate priests garments, iconography, adherence to Latin, ornate buildings, overly authoritarian excessive additional rule making, pretend high standards, stoic self inflicted guilt & self flagellation, etc.

What if they are mimicking the first century Jewish religious practices before the temple was torn down? Even their infant baptism seems to mock infant boy’s circumcision on the 8th day.

 

[Margery]

I've been to Catholic masses with my sister (she rebelled from our late mother's instructions to stay away from the Catholic church, and she became a Catholic) on occasion decades ago and I have Catholic friends.

Most Catholic services are done in English with a set reading of the Bible assigned to the day, a homily by the priest which is a lot like a small sermon and there are some set prayers out of the prayer book which ends up being a lot like an Anglican service

--except for the Hail Mary prayer. (The addition of Mary as Queen of Heaven, prayers to her and the hymns sung to her, statues of Jesus, Mary and the various asstd saints and the doctrine of trans substantiation are what set Catholics apart these days)

Our Father Who Art in Heaven, is one of the set prayers- exactly as Jesus taught that prayer. Unfortunately Hail Mary is the other set prayer. There are a bunch of prayers in the prayer book, and as far as I could tell the priest just picked them or perhaps they were part of a set liturgy for each day of the year like the Bible readings are. Prayers are prayed kneeling on the kneeling benches in the pews, except for age and infirmity.

It follows a similar pattern to any church with some hymns, often the very same ones we used to sing in Baptist and Pentecostal type churches but with a few extra Catholic ones sung to Mary like Ave Maria. That is sung in Latin, but it's rare to have Latin in any part of the service.



There is a breakaway sect within Catholics that adheres to the old Latin mass, but they are very rare and not encouraged by the Vatican. The flagellants are also considered to be extreme and usually in other countries where such extremes are encouraged. Extreme people in the Catholic church exist, but are looked at as a bit odd. Including the ones who make sacred pilgrimages to weeping statues and other sites. Even the Pope and the Vatican don't approve of all of those phenomena, but are sometimes boxed in by local religious nuts who believe every thing from a statue that "weeps" to a picture of Mary coming out of the toaster on a bit of bread.



At one point in the usual Catholic service they are told to look around, give a "sign of peace" aka handshake to those around them. Same thing in my old Baptist church only they didn't call it the sign of peace. That always amused me.

Towards the end they serve communion but only to those who are Catholics, and in good standing ie having gone to confession so they don't have any sins on their conscience that they haven't confessed to the priest.

It's similar to examining our consciences before taking communion but they have the added burden of taking time out to get to church at a time when the priest is available for confession. I can't remember how long they can go between confession before having to skip communion. And they are supposed to fast before taking communion.

And of course we confess our sins directly to our Lord, we don't have to go thru a human intermediary, CHRIST is our intermediary. Nor do we have to call any man "father" as the Bible says NOT TO. Matt 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Communion is a wafer, and a sip from a communal cup of wine.



The doctrine of trans substantiation is another big difference, and this is a biggy!

They believe that as the priest blesses the wafers and the wine that they turn into the literal body and blood of Christ while staying in the form of bread and wine. Luther objected vehemently, calling this nonsense. Other Protestant groups point out this is crucifying Him again instead of once for all time.

To this day the Catholic church teaches that there is no salvation for those who don't take communion with the knowledge of trans substantiation - in other words if you ain't Catholic according to the official Vatican sources, you ain't saved. This teaching is ingrained from babyhood, which explains why it is often so very hard to get them out of the Catholic church into freedom from these dead (and often demonic) works. They are terrified.




People line up for communion, the priest giving them a wafer and a sip out of the communal cup. Once blessed that wine (and I think the wafers too but can't recall) have to be consumed by the congregation and the leftovers consumed by the priest. Since it is wine and not grape juice, priests who are alcoholics are in a bad situation.

The robes are similar to Anglicans where they change colours going into Christmas, getting ready for Easter etc.

The statues of Jesus, Mary and occasional saints lining the walls with Jesus front and centre, and Mary right near by.



Jesus is always portrayed suffering on the cross in contrast to the Protestant empty cross celebrating His Resurrection. Whether the statues of His suffering, or the heart pictures of his suffering, or the doctrine of trans substantiation, Jesus is always pictured in His suffering in the Catholic church. Protestant churches emphasize His VICTORY over death, the grave, suffering and He is Victorious in His payment in full for our sins. BIG DIFFERENCE THERE!



Mary is called the Queen of Heaven. Jeremiah 17 says some stuff about that "deity" calling itself Queen of Heaven and it isn't nice!

There are a bunch of "sacred heart" pictures and prayers - the one of Jesus is for the Lord's love and suffering for fallen humanity, but of course Mary has to be in there too, with her "sacred heart". Whatever Jesus does, the Queen of Heaven tries to kick Him aside and replace Him.

There are candle stations before these statues where people light a candle as they say a particular individual prayer to Jesus or Mary or the saint of their choice.

Most Catholics don't bother - it's skate in, touch some holy water as you race in, get a seat, catch your breath during the service, go to communion if you are confessed up, sit back if you aren't. Say the prayers, go to confession, go to church at least on the "sacred days of obligation" which are Christmas and Easter and you are saved according to their doctrines.

Sort of.



Enter the doctrine of Purgatory where Christians go to burn off their unconfessed sins and here I'm going to link to Got Questions on this topic- they write it best. What does the Bible say about purgatory? | GotQuestions.org

A LOT of unsaved Catholics think they can play the Purgatory card, burn off their sins and stay out of hell because of this demonic doctrine. It directly contradicts Jesus work on the cross by saying Jesus's sacrifice wasn't quite good enough, some minor stuff remains, and needs to be burnt off.

While individual Catholics I talked with profess that one is saved only by Jesus sacrifice on the cross they also lay on top of that a lot of works- prayers to Mary, worship of Mary, good works, confession, communion (with trans substantiation), sacred days of obligation, the idea that one can't be saved outside the Catholic Church (because only Catholics do transubstantiation which to them is essential for salvation).



Their teachings contradict the Bible. Cognitive dissonance happens where what is taught (the Bible is the Supreme Authority) contradicts other teachings (the Pope is God's voice on Earth therefore equal to the Bible in his rulings)


Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. And His work is sufficient for all time and eternity. No works can save us or add to His complete work on the Cross. Yet that is exactly what the Catholic church goes against when teaching of Trans substantiation, Purgatory, Mary worship, good works etc.



My nephew who grew up in that never got saved. Until last January, after struggling with alcohol and going to AA where they demanded he get right with God. He knew that the Catholic church was empty and he turned away from that.

Somebody led him to Christ - I don't know who, and he kept thinking about the contrast between my sister's family, and George and I. Our lives were on track, our faith was real so he turned to Christ, then called me soon after and asked about how safe the E Free church was in the town that he lives in now. He and his wife are attending there and growing in faith.

 

[LydiaJoy]

So glad too be free from all that (forced on me in childhood). The last rites thing really bother me, some believe in Jesus as their savior, but then also insist on the importance of receiving the last rites (also known as the Commendation of the Dying, are the last prayers and ministrations given to an individual of Christian faith, when possible, shortly before death.) Rely on that to save them in addition to Jesus, how sad.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I've been to Catholic masses with my sister (she rebelled from our late mother's instructions to stay away from the Catholic church, and she became a Catholic) on occasion decades ago and I have Catholic friends.

Most Catholic services are done in English with a set reading of the Bible assigned to the day, a homily by the priest which is a lot like a small sermon and there are some set prayers out of the prayer book which ends up being a lot like an Anglican service

--except for the Hail Mary prayer. (The addition of Mary as Queen of Heaven, prayers to her and the hymns sung to her, statues of Jesus, Mary and the various asstd saints and the doctrine of trans substantiation are what set Catholics apart these days)

Our Father Who Art in Heaven, is one of the set prayers- exactly as Jesus taught that prayer. Unfortunately Hail Mary is the other set prayer. There are a bunch of prayers in the prayer book, and as far as I could tell the priest just picked them or perhaps they were part of a set liturgy for each day of the year like the Bible readings are. Prayers are prayed kneeling on the kneeling benches in the pews, except for age and infirmity.

It follows a similar pattern to any church with some hymns, often the very same ones we used to sing in Baptist and Pentecostal type churches but with a few extra Catholic ones sung to Mary like Ave Maria. That is sung in Latin, but it's rare to have Latin in any part of the service.



There is a breakaway sect within Catholics that adheres to the old Latin mass, but they are very rare and not encouraged by the Vatican. The flagellants are also considered to be extreme and usually in other countries where such extremes are encouraged. Extreme people in the Catholic church exist, but are looked at as a bit odd. Including the ones who make sacred pilgrimages to weeping statues and other sites. Even the Pope and the Vatican don't approve of all of those phenomena, but are sometimes boxed in by local religious nuts who believe every thing from a statue that "weeps" to a picture of Mary coming out of the toaster on a bit of bread.



At one point in the usual Catholic service they are told to look around, give a "sign of peace" aka handshake to those around them. Same thing in my old Baptist church only they didn't call it the sign of peace. That always amused me.

Towards the end they serve communion but only to those who are Catholics, and in good standing ie having gone to confession so they don't have any sins on their conscience that they haven't confessed to the priest.

It's similar to examining our consciences before taking communion but they have the added burden of taking time out to get to church at a time when the priest is available for confession. I can't remember how long they can go between confession before having to skip communion. And they are supposed to fast before taking communion.

And of course we confess our sins directly to our Lord, we don't have to go thru a human intermediary, CHRIST is our intermediary. Nor do we have to call any man "father" as the Bible says NOT TO. Matt 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Communion is a wafer, and a sip from a communal cup of wine.



The doctrine of trans substantiation is another big difference, and this is a biggy!

They believe that as the priest blesses the wafers and the wine that they turn into the literal body and blood of Christ while staying in the form of bread and wine. Luther objected vehemently, calling this nonsense. Other Protestant groups point out this is crucifying Him again instead of once for all time.

To this day the Catholic church teaches that there is no salvation for those who don't take communion with the knowledge of trans substantiation - in other words if you ain't Catholic according to the official Vatican sources, you ain't saved. This teaching is ingrained from babyhood, which explains why it is often so very hard to get them out of the Catholic church into freedom from these dead (and often demonic) works. They are terrified.




People line up for communion, the priest giving them a wafer and a sip out of the communal cup. Once blessed that wine (and I think the wafers too but can't recall) have to be consumed by the congregation and the leftovers consumed by the priest. Since it is wine and not grape juice, priests who are alcoholics are in a bad situation.

The robes are similar to Anglicans where they change colours going into Christmas, getting ready for Easter etc.

The statues of Jesus, Mary and occasional saints lining the walls with Jesus front and centre, and Mary right near by.



Jesus is always portrayed suffering on the cross in contrast to the Protestant empty cross celebrating His Resurrection. Whether the statues of His suffering, or the heart pictures of his suffering, or the doctrine of trans substantiation, Jesus is always pictured in His suffering in the Catholic church. Protestant churches emphasize His VICTORY over death, the grave, suffering and He is Victorious in His payment in full for our sins. BIG DIFFERENCE THERE!



Mary is called the Queen of Heaven. Jeremiah 17 says some stuff about that "deity" calling itself Queen of Heaven and it isn't nice!

There are a bunch of "sacred heart" pictures and prayers - the one of Jesus is for the Lord's love and suffering for fallen humanity, but of course Mary has to be in there too, with her "sacred heart". Whatever Jesus does, the Queen of Heaven tries to kick Him aside and replace Him.

There are candle stations before these statues where people light a candle as they say a particular individual prayer to Jesus or Mary or the saint of their choice.

Most Catholics don't bother - it's skate in, touch some holy water as you race in, get a seat, catch your breath during the service, go to communion if you are confessed up, sit back if you aren't. Say the prayers, go to confession, go to church at least on the "sacred days of obligation" which are Christmas and Easter and you are saved according to their doctrines.

Sort of.



Enter the doctrine of Purgatory where Christians go to burn off their unconfessed sins and here I'm going to link to Got Questions on this topic- they write it best. What does the Bible say about purgatory? | GotQuestions.org

A LOT of unsaved Catholics think they can play the Purgatory card, burn off their sins and stay out of hell because of this demonic doctrine. It directly contradicts Jesus work on the cross by saying Jesus's sacrifice wasn't quite good enough, some minor stuff remains, and needs to be burnt off.

While individual Catholics I talked with profess that one is saved only by Jesus sacrifice on the cross they also lay on top of that a lot of works- prayers to Mary, worship of Mary, good works, confession, communion (with trans substantiation), sacred days of obligation, the idea that one can't be saved outside the Catholic Church (because only Catholics do transubstantiation which to them is essential for salvation).



Their teachings contradict the Bible. Cognitive dissonance happens where what is taught (the Bible is the Supreme Authority) contradicts other teachings (the Pope is God's voice on Earth therefore equal to the Bible in his rulings)


Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. And His work is sufficient for all time and eternity. No works can save us or add to His complete work on the Cross. Yet that is exactly what the Catholic church goes against when teaching of Trans substantiation, Purgatory, Mary worship, good works etc.



My nephew who grew up in that never got saved. Until last January, after struggling with alcohol and going to AA where they demanded he get right with God. He knew that the Catholic church was empty and he turned away from that.

Somebody led him to Christ - I don't know who, and he kept thinking about the contrast between my sister's family, and George and I. Our lives were on track, our faith was real so he turned to Christ, then called me soon after and asked about how safe the E Free church was in the town that he lives in now. He and his wife are attending there and growing in faith.

Leftover consecrated bread/wafers (different RCC churches use different forms) can be kept in what is called a monstrance, either on the altar or on a table behind the altar, instead of being consumed then and there. If it's bread and not wafers, it needs to be used pretty quickly. The RCC doctrine of transubstantiation teaches that the bread actually becomes Jesus' human flesh, and the wine actually becomes Jesus' human blood. When I was in Confirmation, one of my questions when we learned about the differences in Holy Communion between the different denominations was something along the lines of how much blood did Jesus have if the Catholics have been drinking it for Centuries? And what happens when there's no more blood to substitute for the wine and no more body to substitute for the bread? (kids

Not just RCC use Common Cup. Some churches, which use Common Cup, ensure there is/are a specific person(s), such as Elders or Deacons, who are communed last and ensure the Common Cup is empty or virtually empty before the Priest finishes it at the end. It's especially important in cases where the Priest or Pastor is on medication(s) (including Antabuse, etc.) that don't mix with alcohol, or he has an issue with alcohol, or there are multiple services. Clergy and assistants in churches, which use Common Cup, are pretty good about estimating how much wine to pour from the cruet into the Cup, especially when needed for the last Table or last Parishioners (continuous Communion), so usually not too much left. Also, if one is in the last Table, even if not a "designated person," one may find the person serving the wine will tip the Cup a little less to stretch the wine, or tip it a little more to help distribute the last wine among the whole Table.

Not just RCC that have a crucifix instead of a plain cross. Some very conservative Protestant churches also do. The Protestants don't look at it as crucifying Jesus again. It's viewed as a reminder of the atoning work Jesus did for our sins and how much He suffered and what it cost The Father. In the Protestant churches it's never looked at as crucifying Jesus again (and again and again . . . ) Ditto, various churches besides RCC have kneelers and Congregants use them at certain times during the service. Sometimes, people will go into the Sanctuary to pray by themselves and use a kneeler. In some churches, the kneelers are there, but no longer used, or were never used, but were already installed on second-hand or donated pews.

There's a historic RCC church in Saint Paul, MN, which still has a Latin High Mass, but also has English Masses. It's on the historic places/buildings roster, so it won't be discontinuing anytime soon.

 

[dwb]

When I served as an Acolyte in the Episcopal church, I remember our Minister eating large amount of consecrated wafers and wine that didn't get consumed. I guess those could not be saved.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

When I served as an Acolyte in the Episcopal church, I remember our Minister eating large amount of consecrated wafers and wine that didn't get consumed. I guess those could not be saved.

I wonder if that Minister was one of the few Episcopalian Priests/Ministers, who held to transubstantiation? Episcopalians generally don't.
Or maybe there was no other way to respectfully dispose of?

In the Lutheran churches I'm familiar with, any bread/wafers we have left over that can't be saved and used next time or for shut-in, etc. ministry is fed to the birds. Any wine or grape juice that can't be saved and used next time or for shut-in, etc. ministry is poured down a sink with a special drain that goes directly outside (not into the regular plumbing) or respectfully poured on the ground outside (natural ground, not paved, etc.). Wine from a Common Cup can't be saved, and the Cup has to be cleaned.