Knowing and Utilizing Biblical Doctrine in Spiritual Warfare.

[Everlasting Life]

I came across this interaction about Spiritual Warfare recently and thought it so good that I wanted to share again. This is a discussion in regards to demonic activities and I've only captured the content I though most worthy to keep. Know that the focus here is Jesus Christ, the power of God and the tools we have as Christians in knowing Biblical Doctrine. I think it's very instructive and beneficial.




F_______ has about 30 yrs experience in casting demons out of Christians so his view is that demons can indeed be inside a believer. I would expect that F_______ reads this thread as the title relates to his deliverance ministry and so at the outset I would like to encourage F_______ and anyone else from this deliverance ministry background to feel they are with family who love them and want to be good and noble Bereans and prove all things by the test of the Word.



When brother F_______ was asked to prove from the Bible that a believer could have a demon he responded that we should prove it cannot be so and I think that is good. However it is one sided and F______ or anyone else from the deliverance ministry needs to prove the Bible shows it is possible for a believer to have a demon.



In my experience, many believers get downright scared about demons because they don't understand much of what Christ has done for us on the cross and in heaven above. This leaves the door wide open for extra Biblical teaching that is contrary to the Word of God. The mere thought that a demon could be the resident evil inside us is naturally frightening if not downright terrifying if something spooky is happening. Let's first see what God shows us in the Bible and let the Word speak to us for our comfort and edification.



Furthermore we are observing the occult increasingly exposing itself in the entertainment industry and that attracts the naive into experimenting with the supernatural for their own gain. Demonic activity is increasing in these last days as the Holy Spirit expressly warned and this results in evil days and false doctrines in the church. The supernatural is always a hot topic among the youth in the church and I think it is essential in these last days that we understand the nature of the fight we are called to. So can demons be a fifth column within the believer that we are unaware of and the Bible seems to be silent on? Many believers either belittle Satan and call him a toothless lion or unduly fear him and his power over us, but what does the Bible say? Can witches cast spells over us?



F________ posted "Unless we understand deliverance, then the harm that a demon can do to a Christian will last till they die! Then that demon will seek a new host." That is a frightening statement to make after 30 yrs of ministry so we need to ask, is it the Gospel truth?



I first got involved with the deliverance ministry almost 40 yrs back so I was in the same camp as F_________ because as a 20 yr old seeking God I wanted to go all out for Jesus and where I lived gave me little choice between the church asleep and the church trying to be on fire and making all the mistakes it's possible to make. Hopefully this thread can help others not make the same mistakes and deepen their faith and wonder in Christ.



We have to be realistic about how life works...



1) We war against sin in our body or our members and the sin nature wars against the spirit. The good that we want to do is often turned into the sin we don't want to do. It's a dirty war with a fifth column inside our flesh that Paul referred to as his vile body and he said there was no good thing in him (meaning the weakness of his flesh).



2) Notwithstanding the above, We are sanctified (set apart as holy) the moment we are saved, but that sanctification process continues until our last breath with the goal of Christ being fully formed in us. We are God's workmanship and He watches over us with the microscopic care that would drive a scientist mad. He tries to get us to grasp something of this when He says He counts every hair, counts every step, counts the number of times we sit down and stand up, counts the times we go out and return, knows out thoughts and the words before we speak them and His thoughts towards us are more than the sands on the shore. He even has our names on the palms of His nail pierced hands!



There couldn't be a clearer dichotomy or greater diametrical opposition than between the forces of darkness and light in us and around us and yet therein lies the rub, for it is easy to use experience as an arbiter over the Word of God and draw false conclusions about why life works out in the way it does. I know, because I'm an expert in screwing up but along with grey hairs comes wisdom when you keep seeking God and testing it by the Bible.



It's easy to see why blame is attached to a demon inside a Christian as the reason for the sin nature raging against the Spirit of holiness. And if a demon can be resident inside us, it makes no sense to think we will not be subject to the powers of the occult against us when some witch sends out curses against us. But it gets even more messy with teachings that the curse in our life is because of occult involvement by family members generations ago and that means some of us get free if we know the sages who can look into the spiritual realm and tell us what has gone on in past lives of others. Now we are getting real messy and preaching on the reach of evil while completely missing the reach of God in Christ. You see, where sin abounds grace super abounds. There is no balance in this war. It is not two almost equal forces opposing each other. The victory Christ won for us is so vast and He is exalted so high that the Bible struggles with mere human words.



Most of the confusion is cleared up if we do as we are instructed and fix our eyes on Jesus the author and finisher of our faith instead of looking back as we are instructed not to do. We have to forget the things that were before for a reason - they have no power over us. We have to lay hold of that for which Christ laid hold of us, the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. The more we do that, the more we end up starving sin and demons of the attention they crave.

 

[Everlasting Life]

So let's consider the Words of Jesus. "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free... if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed" Jn.8:31-36. We are not just set free like a prisoner from jail, but we given a degree of freedom that is beyond comparison. We are not escaped convicts rescued from the pit, but we are made kings and priests before God. We understand that we are sanctified by the truth and the Word is truth, so we must gain knowledge of the truth only by the Word of God and not by interpreting experiences.



The church is full of experiences that are wayward and from these experiences comes extra Biblical doctrines that twist the Word out of context to justify belief structures. Young people look at so called men of God with great followings and don't have the pastoral protection and instruction to expose error and are sucked into what seems to be the power of God.



Many will come to Jesus on the last day and find they face hell while calling out to Him , Lord, Lord. They cite the prophesies and miracles and demons they cast out of people are demonstrating their salvation but Jesus replies, Depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you. According the Jesus, many in the deliverance ministry and the signs and wonder teachings are going 180 degrees in the wrong direction. So it might pay well to see how this developed from experience to practice to doctrine instead of from Biblical doctrine to practice to experience.



Gal.4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.



Make a note of that, Christ's words are coming true and we are truly free indeed!



The question regarding the possibility for the indwelling of demons inside a believer is clear if we understand what the Jews understood by the following verse. This is why is starts out with a shocked exclamation.. What? Don't you know? Your body is THE temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you! You got Him from God! You are not your own!



For you are (right now) bought with a price. Because of all of this, glorify God IN YOUR BODY and in your spirit, which are God's. (1Cor.6:19-20)



Now here is the problem for us non Jews. We tend to read it like this: Don't you know your body is like a church building? Many if not most of us have experienced or seen messy things happen in church and it can be a free for all at times in some churches. But it was not so in the temple of God.



The Levites were in charge of the temple and only the holy things of God were allowed inside. If the unclean animal or person was to mistakenly enter the temple they didn't usher them back outside. No! They took a sword and took the life of the unclean thing. You don't mess with the temple of God.



However we don't have a Levite guarding the temple. We have the Holy Spirit and just to be absolutely sure that this is a completed and finished deal, the door is sealed forever by Him. We are commanded to glorify God in our bodies but that would be impossible if demons were in the temple of God. It would be impossible to be truly free indeed if we had demons that secretly held us in bondage. It would be a worthless statement that we are owned by God and are His temple indwelled by God himself yet He allows demons to shack up in some corner of His temple.



Never! What? Don't you know? It's impossible!



Yet this doctrine of demons in believers and hidden curses holding in bondage flies right in the face of the Word of God that tells us we are instantly translated from the power of darkness and brought into the kingdom of His dear Son when we were saved.



We are saved. Completely and utterly saved. Saved from the wrath of God and from the power of sin. Saved from the rule of Satan through sin and death. And that's why there is not one example of a believer having a demon cast out of them in the NT or confessions for breaking of curses.



So how did the church get caught up in this doctrine of demons that gets believers to look back at their past life instead of forgetting the things that are before, and focusing on demons even for a while instead of keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus?



I think you will find there are a lot of views on this topic because there is so much misinformation in the church regarding the power of demons over and inside believers. There are fortunes being made from books and DVD's that offer the keys to spiritual freedom and the breaking of curses and more and more who are coming to faith in Christ have dabbled in the occult. They are vulnerable to this deliverance and curse breaking industry. Others are afraid of what evil can befall them as per the other thread.



Answering these questions protects from falling into the twofold trap Jesus warned about by 1) being deceived about deliverance from demons but much more importantly is 2) when Jesus said, I never knew you. Knowing God by understanding what He has done for us kills all of these questions about demons and curses and breakthroughs and put the focus on God, not us and not on demons.



There are spectacular demonstrations of demons coming out of believers that fool the naive. Jesus warned that many will come to Him calling Him Lord, Lord and one of the things they cite as being proof of being saved is the casting out of demons... Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matt.7:22



When Jesus uses the term "many" it's a cause for major concern and one worth dealing with.



So I'll go on a little bit more and explain some of my background. I don't really know when I was saved. About 8 yrs old I was invited into a caravan to watch this movie about Jesus and I made a confession then. I think God may have taken me at my word there and then although I didn't really understand much about it all. As I got a little older I had this belief that Christians were God's warriors (no idea how I got that) and I didn't know if it was possible to be a Christian or if they were like angels, but when I met one I was going to ask if i could become a Christian.



That opportunity came when I was 12 and I had to run the length of a football pitch to catch a children's ministry before they left for the day and I blurted out, I want to become a Christian. I didn't have any personal follow up so I didn't know how to grow and when friends pointed out that I was as bad as they were when I told them I was a Christian I stalled. Then at 16 it all happened, bawling my eyes out in my bedroom and it was as if Jesus was on the cross in my room and I knew it should have been me on the cross.



Then a few months later this hippy type that I had never talked to invited me to come and study the Bible with him. It seemed real strange to me so I brought my guitar with me as it went everywhere with me including to bed. We arranged to meet the following week and he said, Oh, don't bring your guitar." Well after a few weeks something happened: the Bible came alive and I couldn't put it down.



Long story short: this led to 4 of us deciding to go witness to the lost late at night because they never hear the Gospel. My home town was given the title of sin city by a UK newspaper after it considered 200 towns and cities. At night it was a hotbed of gang and terrorist violence and confrontations with witches and demons just happened.



It's important to know that I was a wanted man by a lot of gangs because I lived in the wrong side of town. I was a prod going into IRA territory and there was no guarantee we'd get home alive each night. This was my first face to face contest with demonic manifestations and what I knew about demons was pretty close to one sentence. But there's the deal: the demons knew the truth and Jesus knew the truth and that made up for me not knowing. I kid you not, I had an angel push me out of the way of a bullet and picking a witch up and moving him away as he tried to kill me. 3 or 4 times he was floating backwards unable to touch me but he just kept running at me when he was put down. There are many stories to tell. The local Pentecostal minister stopped me one day and asked if I was one of the ones going on the streets at night. When I said yes he said, You're turning the town upside down!



Then when I was 21 an elderly neighbor came in for tea and told me about a strange thing that happened to his wife. He woke up and she was not in bed with him and when he went to his grandson's cot she was standing over him choking him to death. When he tried to grab her, although she was tiny and frail, she hurled him across the room. However that was enough to break her out of this trance but frightened them and the grandson was never allowed to say alone with them.



I said I would pray about it and ask God why this happened. When I prayed I saw a vision of his wife as a young woman visiting a medium and this is where the demonic attachment happened. They were a religious couple but not believers and this thing was making some kind of claim in her life. I told him about it and he asked his wife but she said it never happened. Then I described the event in more details and suddenly she exclaimed yes it was so but she had forgotten about it.



I was moving house then to a different town but I told them to go to their minister and explain everything that had happened. I did this partly because I knew he was a good man, partly because I was leaving and partly because I was naive and believed a clergyman knew everything spiritual and would know what to do. However a few months later I was told she committed suicide. I really needed someone to instruct me in these things.

 

[Everlasting Life]

When I moved to the next town I got involved with a fellowship that was sold out on God, and we were getting involved with one of the biggest movements of God in the world. It was WoF except that term was not used at the time and we were under Derek Prince's stream of teaching. Derek had a very big deliverance ministry so here I was, as very young man who needed teaching on demons and spiritual warfare and this was not only the only source I could find but it was really kicking off everywhere. Demons were not only outside the church, according to Derek they were in believers too and goodness were these meetings dramatic!



Boy were we busy in the deliverance ministry and I was getting a first class training. Things seemed so good and just the discipleship I needed. There was one big, big problem. As I say to my kids when I tell them a story, It's the biggest, biggest problem you have ever seen in your lives!



The teaching was founded on experience and pulling verses out of the Bible to support and justify the experiences instead of judging the experiences in the light of the Word of God. That is the difference between knowing Jesus and what He has done and replacing His work with our works.



A demon will do everything in its power to stop someone coming to an understanding of the Gospel and when the heat gets turned up by them coming too close to getting saved then they can manifest. But once that person cries out to Jesus to save them, Jesus doesn't do a little work - He does it all.



So how come all these freaky things are happening in the church? If the Word says we are free and clean and sanctified and sealed and delivered and owned by God and He dwells in us, then how come the circus goes on in church deliverance meetings?



Spiritual warfare is real. But what is real about spiritual warfare and what is hokus pokus? Resisting the devil is real. Evil days are real when remaining standing is the greatest victory. What we don't need is to grant the devil power over believers that he lost in Christ's victory and that is the problem with most of the deliverance ministry that is trying to break curses, bind Satan and cast him out where he can put his hands up and say it wasn't him. But he loves it as much as Jesus hates it and that is why it is one of Satan's great end time deceptions.



One of the things I mentioned earlier was the error of moving from experience to practice to doctrine instead of from Biblical doctrine to practice to experience. It's very tempting to get caught up in the sensational and in an attempt to discover what God is doing in it we begin by theorizing and experimenting and then from those conclusions we mix in Bible verses and hey presto God is doing a new thing and we have some kind of Biblical justification for it. The problem is that it flies in the face of Biblical doctrine!



To facilitate the transition many teachers talk about not confining God to a box (meaning the Word of God) or that God is challenging us by doing the irrational because He wants to move us outside of our comfort zone. It's all theory and when it moves us away from the Word guess who is behind it?



If ever you are put in a position where you are asked to accept anything that elevates a demon above the position the Bible teaches, or demotes a believer below the position God placed us in Christ, then that idea will fester into a spiritual minefield.



When we get caught up in the belief that believers need deliverance from demons rather than teaching on their liberty in Christ and calling on God to deal with the sin in our lives, we move away from the protection of God and into the darkness of the Satanic whisper, Has God said?



It is no trifle that when the teaching on the believer being made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is barely mentioned in these sensational churches, that the demonic manifestations are increasing. Yes while Bible doctrine is being slated by the likes of Rick Warren the enemy is bringing in a slew of errors into the church.



We saw that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer making us His temple, sealing us for redemption, sanctifying us as His holy place and we are not in bondage any more. In fact... 2Cor.3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.



When we teach the believer the truth about righteousness they rise up as a warrior in God and break asunder every lie Satan brings to them. However if we teach them that hidden bondage's bind them and they don't know about them, then you end up going through rituals naming hundreds of sins for your own life and past generations.



Now here is the BIG question... what if you miss one? What if a demon is waiting for you to name it but you missed it and it is reason for difficulties or sin in your life? This puts the believer in a vulnerable position once again.



In the likes of the G12 movement encounter weekend which has been copied by many, many churches, a great list of sins are listed for consideration. Confessions are made for your life and past generations to break generational curses. Then there is the healing of memories and regressing back into the womb. All of this is necessary but you might miss one.



Believe me, a 16 yr old kid could cry out to Jesus and be completely saved and go out and scare the wits out of demons and turn the town upside down simply because I believed the Bible. And that is why learning doctrine teaches you how to hold your shield in position and swing your sword into the weak spots of the enemy.



Learn doctrine family!

 

[Everlasting Life]

We are made kings and priests onto our God. Interestingly a king could never be a priest and a priest could never be a king but we are the like Christ, both kings and priests.



In the following setting it reminds me of being made a king by Christ. Athaliah represents Satan and when full discovery is made because of the coronation celebrations Satan discovers too late that his prized possessions belong to Christ. Note the guardianship of the armed priests, but we are guarded by God and His holy angels.



Read this and be blessed...



2 CHRONICLES LESSON 23



We will begin this lesson in II Chronicles 23:1 "And in the seventh year Jehoiada strengthened himself, and took the captains of hundreds, Azariah the son of Jeroham, and Ishmael the son of Jehohanan, and Azariah the son of Obed, and Maaseiah the son of Adaiah, and Elishaphat the son of Zichri, into covenant with him."



In the last lesson, Athaliah had killed all of her grandchildren {except one}, so that she could be queen. Joash had been hidden in the temple. He was the rightful heir to the throne. Jehoiada was the high priest who had hidden the baby, Joash. Now, he had strengthened his courage enough that he called the leaders of the army to him to anoint Joash king. These were leaders of various segments of the troops. We may assume that Jehoiada knew them well enough to know that he could trust them. Jehoiada had risked his own life, and the life of his family, to hide the baby these years.



II Chronicles 23:2 "And they went about in Judah, and gathered the Levites out of all the cities of Judah, and the chief of the fathers of Israel, and they came to Jerusalem."



They had to do this secretly not to arouse the suspicion of this evil queen. The decision to anoint this youngster as king and overthrow the queen would need to be sanctioned by the Levitical tribe. All of these who came were people in authority.



II Chronicles 23:3 "And all the congregation made a covenant with the king in the house of God. And he said unto them, Behold, the king's son shall reign, as the LORD hath said of the sons of David."



This covenant was an unbreakable agreement of these men of authority gathered in the temple. It is explained to everyone that the LORD had promised David that his lineage would sit on the throne of Judah. This young boy, Joash, is the only living heir to the throne. It appears, that all were in agreement.



II Chronicles 23:4 "This [is] the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, [shall be] porters of the doors;"



It was not unusual for Levites to come to the temple on sabbath. 1/3 of them shall be keepers of the door. They could not take a chance on someone entering who was not aware of what is going on.



II Chronicles 23:5 "And a third part [shall be] at the king's house; and a third part at the gate of the foundation: and all the people [shall be] in the courts of the house of the LORD."



This is just explaining that Joash, the king to be, would be guarded every step of the way. No one would be able to get to him.



II Chronicles 23:6 "But let none come into the house of the LORD, save the priests, and they that minister of the Levites; they shall go in, for they [are] holy: but all the people shall keep the watch of the LORD." The people, who are not the Levites, are to guard from the outside all of the entrances to the place where the young boy will be anointed king. Only the priests, who have been anointed of God themselves to take place in the services in the temple would be in the near vicinity of Joash {Jehoash}.



II Chronicles 23:7 "And the Levites shall compass the king round about, every man with his weapons in his hand; and whosoever [else] cometh into the house, he shall be put to death: but be ye with the king when he cometh in, and when he goeth out." The Levites had swords in their hands, ready to kill anyone who came near the boy. They made a human wall around Joash. Anyone trying to enter who was not part of the anointing service would be killed.



II Chronicles 23:8 "So the Levites and all Judah did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest had commanded, and took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that were to go [out] on the sabbath: for Jehoiada the priest dismissed not the courses." It would appear to be a normal sabbath at the temple. Everyone did just as Jehoiada had planned.



II Chronicles 23:9 "Moreover Jehoiada the priest delivered to the captains of hundreds spears, and bucklers, and shields, that [had been] king David's, which [were] in the house of God." It appears, these weapons of David's had been kept in the temple. Now, they were distributed out to the leaders of the groops of men who would protect the young king. We must remember that the temple was like a complex. The temple, itself, was surrounded by other buildings.



II Chronicles 23:10 "And he set all the people, every man having his weapon in his hand, from the right side of the temple to the left side of the temple, along by the altar and the temple, by the king round about." The weapon being in their hand showed their readiness to use it. These men covered the entire wall, so that no one could possibly get through to Joash.



II Chronicles 23:11 "Then they brought out the king's son, and put upon him the crown, and [gave him] the testimony, and made him king. And Jehoiada and his sons anointed him, and said, God save the king." The high priest, Jehoiada, and his sons, the priests did the actual anointing of Joash as king. They put a crown on his head, and put the book of the law into his hands. He had been trained by the high priest in the temple. They gave him God's law as a guide to judge by.



II Chronicles 23:12 "Now when Athaliah heard the noise of the people running and praising the king, she came to the people into the house of the LORD:" It is interesting that all of this went on without her knowing it was happening. The people could not contain their joy, when Joash was anointed king. Athaliah came to see for herself what was happening.



II Chronicles 23:13 "And she looked, and, behold, the king stood at his pillar at the entering in, and the princes and the trumpets by the king: and all the people of the land rejoiced, and sounded with trumpets, also the singers with instruments of music, and such as taught to sing praise. Then Athaliah rent her clothes, and said, Treason, Treason." She was shocked, when she saw the young boy crowned king in her stead. She immediately understood what had happened, and she began to tear her clothes in mourning. The treason was not against the land, but against her as queen.



II Chronicles 23:14 "Then Jehoiada the priest brought out the captains of hundreds that were set over the host, and said unto them, Have her forth of the ranges: and whoso followeth her, let him be slain with the sword. For the priest said, Slay her not in the house of the LORD." Jehoiada reminded them not to kill her in the house of the LORD, but to take her away from the temple to kill her. Anyone who was with her was to be slain along with her. It would be hard to see why anyone would follow so evil a woman.



II Chronicles 23:15 "So they laid hands on her; and when she was come to the entering of the horse gate by the king's house, they slew her there." They killed her by the horse gate, because she was no more than an animal. She had no conscience at all. She would be killed in disgrace.



II Chronicles 23:16 "And Jehoiada made a covenant between him, and between all the people, and between the king, that they should be the LORD'S people." Jehoiada had taught the new king the ways of the LORD, while he was in his care. The queen was evil, and had led the country away from God. The agreement that the people, the officials, Jehoiada, and the king made would succeed only, if they returned to the LORD. The covenant with the LORD in this would be a special effort to get back into good relationship with the LORD.



II Chronicles 23:17 "Then all the people went to the house of Baal, and brake it down, and brake his altars and his images in pieces, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars." Ahab and Jezebel had brought the worship of Baal into Israel. Their daughter, Athaliah, had introduced it in Judah. It appears, she had actually built a building to this false god. The very first thing to do to show the LORD they were sincere, would be to tear down the building, the images, and to do away with the priest of Baal. This was the first step in bringing Judah into fellowship with the LORD. We must remember, that Jehoiada had been like a father to Joash while he was in hiding. Joash would do what Jehoiada wanted him to do.



II Chronicles 23:18 "Also Jehoiada appointed the offices of the house of the LORD by the hand of the priests the Levites, whom David had distributed in the house of the LORD, to offer the burnt offerings of the LORD, as [it is] written in the law of Moses, with rejoicing and with singing, [as it was ordained] by David." It appears, that the worship in the temple had been limited during the reign of Athaliah. Now, the worship in the temple would be re-established. Jehoiada would go by the example that David started in the temple. He would be high priest, his sons, the priests, and all of the others who serve in any capacity in the temple would be established according to their families. We have discussed before, that musicians and singers are ministers called of God, as well as the priests.



II Chronicles 23:19 "And he set the porters at the gates of the house of the LORD, that none [which was] unclean in any thing should enter in." Even these porters had to be of the Levites. They were to guard the entrance against intruders.



II Chronicles 23:20 "And he took the captains of hundreds, and the nobles, and the governors of the people, and all the people of the land, and brought down the king from the house of the LORD: and they came through the high gate into the king's house, and set the king upon the throne of the kingdom." The anointing of the king was done by the priests, but the placing of the king on his throne in his house, was a joint participation. All of the officials in the land were involved in this. Partially for the king's safety, and partially showing their approval of Joash as king, they accompanied him to his throne.



II Chronicles 23:21 "And all the people of the land rejoiced: and the city was quiet, after that they had slain Athaliah with the sword." We can see that the tyrant, Athaliah, was gone, now all the people rejoiced, again. The young king would rule pleasing unto God, as long as the high priest was living to guide him.



2 Chronicles 23 Questions 1. When did Jehoiada strengthen himself?

2. Who had Athaliah killed, so that she might be queen?

3. Where had Joash been hidden?

4. Who was the high priest in the temple at the time?

5. Who does Jehoiada call to the temple?

6. Who did they gather out of Judah to come to Jerusalem to the temple?

7. Why had Jehoida called these men of authority?

8. Why was it important that Joash reign as king?

9. What was this covenant?

10. What shall 1/3 of the Levites do, when they enter on the chosen sabbath?

11. Where will the others be stationed?

12. Who are the only ones to enter into the house of the LORD?

13. Where will the Levites' weapons be?

14. Why did the queen not suspicion something was going on?

15. Where did they find weapons to use?

16. What did the weapon being in their hands show?

17. They brought out the young man, and crowned him, and put the ________ __ __ __ in his hand.

18. Who actually anointed Joash king?

19. What did Athaliah do, when she heard the noise of praise?

20. What did she do, when she saw what was going on?

21. Where did they kill her?

22. In verse 16, we read they made a covenant to be what?

23. What did they do with the altars of Baal?

24. Who had brought the worship of Baal into Israel?

25. Jehoiada had been like a _________ to Joash.

26. Who were the porters at the gate?

27. Who went with Joash to the house of the king, to set him on his throne?

28. How long did Joash reign righteously in the land?

 

[Everlasting Life]

1. Paul's concern was that whoever was bringing this corrupt teaching or savior or other spirit or gospel was someone that believers would bear with.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.



That's the problem for the church - we are too tolerant and forgiving of false teachers. We fill in the gaps in their meanings that are unclear because we hope the best in them instead of pressing the point for clarity. God wants us to grow up in the Word so that...



Eph.4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;



How do we do that?



One vital way is to understand the doctrine of righteousness and become skilled in that because then we understand who we are in Christ, what God has given us and how we are hid in Christ in God....



Heb.5:11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.



Believing false teaching doesn't necessarily mean hypocrisy, it can just be a fact that we were deceived because we can't discern good from evil. We don't know the simplicity of our salvation and someone came along and sounded all super spiritual by over complicating how to be free in Christ when it's already won, done and dusted.

And departing the faith doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. It just means you have lost your inheritance here and made shipwreck of your faith. Paul handed Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan for correction that they may learn not to blaspheme.



1 Tim. 1:18b war a good warfare; 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:



20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.



Much of the teaching on deliverance is totally contrary to the doctrine of righteousness and has complicated lengthy rituals whereby you must identify and break specific demonic bonds and curses not only in your life but also before you were born and then in previous generations.



This is why F_____ erroneously believes (as I did) that a believer can be held in bondage by demons all their life and only be set free upon death unless they are delivered from that demons power. Demons will live up to that teaching and present all kinds of manifestations to support the lie that when a believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit it means very little in this life because a demon can have the upper hand against God and God only wins on death unless someone steps up in the place of Christ and delivers them in Jesus name!



If we formulate doctrine based on experiences like this rather than demanding demons bow to the Word of God and Christ in us, then there is no stopping the errors that creep in.



From errors in the deliverance ministry Derek Prince went on to lead the shepherding movement which did tremendous damage across the world and shipwrecked many people, many of whom I knew. Derek later repented but by that time there were a number of suicides. The teachings of Don Basham and Derek Prince regarding deliverance have become close to standardized practices around the world where they taught that believers could have demons.



The answer was not to teach believers how they were free in Christ as the apostles taught but rather to put believers through a procedure that psychologically was guaranteed to get people to think they could have a demon.



I came back from church one day to find my home surrounded by black cassette tape. It had taken several people considerable time to tie it on to all the bushes and took me some time to snip it off with scissors. Witches use tape recorders to record spells and curses and then tie it round their victims property. I never even bothered to get the church to pray against this because Satan would have to take this up with my heavenly Father.



Prov.26:2 As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.



That was how it was for the people of God in the OT. However the promises in the NT are much greater that the OT.



Gal.3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is every one who hangeth on a tree”),14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.



I started off by describing how a witch was warned by a demon in a rage not to be sent to curse a Christian. When a spirit comes to a Christian they must deal with the owner of the property and God is very jealous of us for He paid the highest price in all of eternity to redeem us. Jesus became a curse for us and Satanists call Jesus the accursed one and in truth He was.. then.. but not now!!



You don't need to spend money on offerings to get a breakthrough against a curse. You don't need to pray for God to reveal to you what has happened in your past that has given a demon tenancy rights in your life. You don't need to look back - you need to look up! You just need to get your brain full of the understanding of the salvation of God and wear that like a helmet.



You don't need to worry about demons infesting your body: you just need to learn about how you are made the righteousness of God in Christ and put on the breastplate of righteousness. Learn about your glorious liberty in Christ.



You don't need to listen to teachers who make themselves important and essential for your freedom: you just need to learn the truth that Jesus set you free and wear it like a belt of truth that holds the armor in place.



There are no demons in you and you don't need to cede ground to the enemy that was won by Christ: you just need to put on the spiked shoes of the preparation of the Gospel and stand firm on everything God says He HAS done.



You don't need fancy rigmaroles and complicated deliverances; above all you just need to pick up the shield of faith and quench those lies Satan tells you about who you are in Christ.



Learn doctrine so you can take up the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God and and use it to cut your way out of whatever Satan has brought against you, for we wrestle against a cunning and organized rebellion against God and His Word.



Satan's great weapons of sin and death under the curse of the law were completely and eternally defeated and lost at Calvary and furthermore the believer is instantly translated by Father from the power of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son when we get saved. Having earlier established that demons have lost their spiritual hold on the believer and cannot enter and conceal themselves in God's temple (our body) causing havoc while we can't find them without a complicated deliverance ritual, then let's understand what the Bible means when it says Jesus disarmed the principalities and powers and yet it says they shoot fiery darts at us.



We didn't start this war and the war didn't start at the cross - but it was finished at the cross... as they say it's all done bar the cheering. One of Satan's titles means resistor and from the beginning he was a thief, murderer and liar. He constantly resists God's Word and God's purposes and plans and accuses the saints. That means irrespective of the victory of the cross, we are in Satan's cross-hairs but because of Christ in us, we are the number 1 target and hated beyond belief.



God showed us in Genesis that Satan's first attack is deception regarding God's Word. Atheism is a very low level unsophisticated attack because the heavens testify against them whereas getting saints to believe they are in bondage to demons is high level and by that I mean we have to study the Word and rightly divide the Word and not lean unto our own thinking to understand the truth. In fact, in a nutshell, it is not about understanding the Word per se but it is about knowing God for that is the purpose of His Word.That is why accepting strange experiences as truth that run counter to the Word sets us up for deception.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Eve had an experience of the power of sin to convince: she saw the fruit was good looking, tasted great and had power to increase in knowledge. It really sounds a bit shaman'ish, like she had some kind of drug induced trip. I can just see her coming to Adam wide eyed and full of a new kind of confidence and Adam decided to try for himself. It was a prideful going our own way with a mixture of first being deceived about the Word and then rebelling in Adam's case.



The war plan hasn't changed but we now have the Gospel truth on our side and everything we need for life and godliness. So Satan, disarmed of all his ability to subject us to his will and rule over us, to bring us into bondage, to condemn us, to demand we go to hell with him has to work on what is available to him.



That means he can tempt us in our mind and emotions, deceive us, take us captive by winds of false doctrine, persecute us, put us in prison, and basically use every living soul that is not saved to vent his hatred and even kill us if God permits for His own glory. He will oppose the preaching of the Gospel the instant we speak . Thomas Brooks 450yrs ago wrote Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices and the book is full of Satan's attack strategies and the Bible says we are not ignorant of his devices (2 Cor 2:11).



He can flame a little anger into a red mist in a second. We eat every day and Jesus taught us to not only ask for today's bread but He then used the conjunction AND forgive us our sins as we forgive others AND lead us not into temptation AND deliver us from evil because such is this war we need daily protection and deliverance.



Most of the battle is focused on one thing - truth. It's all about knowing God by His Word. That's why there is such a war against doctrine today. Rick Warren and others say God isn't that interested in doctrine and Rick alone has well over 100,000 pastors committed to his reformation and even taking down crosses from church buildings. Much of the charismatic movement says God can't be confined to a box meaning His Word so if the church looks like a cross between a circus and a bar when the Word says let all things be done decently and in order in church 1 Cor.14:40 well that is because God is taking us out of our comfort zone.



So we are subject to wrestling contests meaning we have to struggle against everything going wrong and our mind, will and emotions are under attack. We get fiery darts coming against our faith so we are challenged in how we know it should be. We sometimes have such an evil day that standing is the victory. We are urged to fight a good warfare and understand the cost. We have to bring the cross to bear in our own lives because the sin nature wars against us. And we definitely need each others love and support.



Paul was shipwrecked, stoned to death (and brought back to life), whipped, fell sick, had his right hand man almost die, was opposed in where he wanted to go, had multitudes stirred up against him, was emotionally strung out, deserted, lacked support, was constantly doctrinally attacked, imprisoned and finally killed. Nothing unusual there and that's why it is in the Book so when we encounter similar we can understand how Paul talked about Grace working effectually in him to accomplish the will of God and his testimony is for us all... in all these things we are more than conquerors through Christ Jesus our lord!



As a boy I used to watch Captain Scarlet and no matter how badly he was beaten up by his enemies, on the point of death in ICU he would miraculously heal and come back into perfect warrior strength. I must drive Satan nuts because my testimony is not of my wisdom or strength but it is this: For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity (Prov.24:16)



Seven times here doesn't mean it is limited to 7 but that this continues forever like Jesus telling Peter to forgive 70 times 7.



It's a fact... we fall. But every time we fall or fail we get wiser and stronger because we go to the Word of God and to Christ and investigate, learn doctrine and see it is God who picks us up and says go back in the ring with the enemy. For a Christian, failure is only temporary and our account while in failure is always credited to as us being more than conquerors. That's why Paul said he knows no man after the flesh (2 Cor.5: 15-17). Eventually in time we get a break (even if it is a call home) because Satan is either bruised and put under our feet of he flees as he can no longer do another round with us.



Spiritual warfare requires more than an understanding of the weapons and armor of God because it requires the heart of a warrior to develop in us so we are like David when he saw and heard Goliath. For just like Joshua before him, David wasn't impressed with the natural, but he was mightily impressed with God. And that is what this thread is about: understanding demons but not being impressed with their noise while being mightily impressed with God and His astounding provisions and loving watchcare over us.



Incidentally, in dealing with the subject of demons, I don't call Satan names (like Screwtape etc.) because I am under God's authority and I respect authority as we are taught in Jude. However in doing so I testify that God is the ultimate authority and has placed me in Christ as a much greater authority than Satan. Satan knows he will only weaken and bow or break before God's Word while we can only become stronger by patiently waiting on God's Word so he must try to deceive us or lose. Time is always on our side, not his. When we fall the work of righteousness in us will only heal and restore us and cause us to rise up again. But every time we do, we are changed more and more into His likeness (2 Cor.3:18). Now that's being more than a conqueror, eh? What an amazing thing it is to be a Christian!



1. my question is how can demons oppress us physically? Do they need God's permission or can they mess with our bodies without it? 1) The Bible teaches us demons are in denial of all the facts of Christ and our salvation (1 John 4:1 - 6). If it is the Gospel truth then they oppose it. If they can't learn from losing everything to Christ at the cross, there's little hope that they will accept the truth of Christ being your wisdom and strength lol. If you think it's tough being a Christian with demons causing problems, think of what it's like being a demon and having Christians screw up your day lol.



2) Jesus showed that some mental and physical illnesses are a direct result of demonic activity. The Bible shows that other sickness is a result of living in a fallen world for all creation fell. Job shows Satan needs permission to attack God's people and in that case Satan attacked Job's emotions through destroying his home, business and killing his family. Then Satan had to get another level of permission to attack Job physically. Satan can bring anything from weather catastrophe to mob violence against God's people, but he can never actually touch us spiritually (Luke 10:19). When God hid us in Christ and made our bodies His temple, you better believe demons need permission to to anything to us physically. God uses fiery trials brought about by demonic attacks to refine our faith and it is precious to Him, but it is also a reminder to demons that they are in line for judgment (1 Pet. 4:12 – 19)



Some things I want to take up here. As I mentioned earlier, although not the primary goal, one of the reasons I posted this thread is because of the tide of occult that is sweeping the world in these last days. When the church is silent about the nature of evil that virtually all the youth are observing hidden in plain sight in video games, music, TV, Internet and movies etc. then Satan continues to fill that vacuum with his spiritual invitations.



Demons posing as angels or spirit guides is becoming more and more popular and because of the silence in many churches, quite a number of folks of all ages are getting sucked up into this delusion believing God is sending these spirit guides to help us in making our day to day decisions.



There is a place for the deliverance ministry to work, but unfortunately much of it is not based on sound Bible doctrine and thus it ends up bringing Christians into bondage instead of making them understand how they are gloriously free. As inhisglory points out from occultic experience, the Word of God is true and tested (Ps.12:6) - Christians can't have an indwelling demon.



To fill in a little more in my testimony, when I was 14, (about 18 month before I had fallen on my knees in repentance and weeping begging Jesus to save me from my sins) I was at a party when people began to play with the ouija board. I didn't believe in demons so I played along with this silly game and each time it was my turn I asked the spirit to come into the room. On the 3rd time of asking it did and picked me up and turned me round and it scared the wits out of me.



When I went home I couldn't look in a mirror because it was full of terrible faces. Then when I went to bed my dressing room mirror was watching me full of faces and there was this big evil looking head sticking out of the wall watching me. It was clear it was full of evil. I slept with a cross in my hand and a Bible in the other and a Bible under the pillow for 18 months.



Then the night that I repented in tears I went to bed and sitting up with my eyes open I prayed, Lord Jesus, can you do anything about the faces? Suddenly I shouted out with this shout of pure joy and at that instant I saw a look of extreme terror on the face of this evil head and it disappeared along with all the rest of them never to return! Nehemiah 8:10



When the Lord Jesus calls Time Up! on a demons activities, the demonstration of demonic power ends instantly. That is how great our Savior is and how great a salvation we have. I wrote in an earlier post that when I was out on the streets dealing with demon possessed witches what I knew about demons could be written in one line and here it is... Jesus scares the wits out of demons!



And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Matt.8:29

 

[Everlasting Life]

No demons live in Christians.



I intend to dig up some hallowed ground that I alluded to earlier about how the church got into the state it has about the deliverance ministry. Imagine this, the guys who think they are in the front line of spiritual warfare are most often shooting their own troops in the foot when they pull the trigger. That's not based on my opinion for my opinion has all the weight of a humming birds feather: it's based on what God declares. Most of the deliverance ministry is not about delivering the unsaved from fairly rare demonic manifestations: it is about bringing ALL believers into bondage and exalting demons when it thinks it is doing the opposite.



To put that in a nutshell they teach...

1) Christians can have demons indwelling their bodies

2) Christians are subject to curses as a result of their own or others activities. This can be generations back

3) A believer cannot be free without specifically identifying and breaking these curses or demons



However even having successfully dealt with all these problems the believer may still be prevented from achieving the breakthrough because demons are continuing to resist them and the only way to win is to sow seed offerings to God. We need to buy God's blessing even though Christ became poor so we may become rich. The truth is we ARE blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.



Talk about bringing the saints into bondage, exalting demons and missing the power of God in salvation!



I know I am stepping on quite a few sensitive toes so to put things in clearer perspective, I said I came into WoF when I was about 20. Well I went on to WoF Bible School so put that stripe against me. I said that the deliverance ministry has a number of things upside down and number one is that Christians can have demons indwelling them. I also said I was mentored in this about 40 yrs back so put that stripe against me. I also said the the G12 Encounter Model that in various forms has been copied around the world and it is based on praying to get God to reveal family and generational curses and then renouncing involvement in them and even regressing into the womb etc. All extra-Biblical stuff that not only moves away from the simplicity of devotion to Christ because of His finished work (2 Cor.11:1-3) but ends up inadvertently exalting demons so put that stripe against me too because I came thru the G12 Bible School and taught the whole deal.



I know people like brother F______ are reading this thread and probably thinking I don't understand this or that doctrine so to put the record straight, I walked more than a mile in your shoes and probably further than you have in this course. That's why I invited and still invite anyone to refute what I post from God's Word but I also want to say I have had to repent of and renounce belief structures I held as true primarily because I trusted so called men of God to be guardians of the Word of God. When I discovered this was not the case, there was no room for divided loyalties. There were confrontations and broken friendships that were very dear because they couldn't survive one simple request: let the Word of God be the two edged sword that both cuts against the enemy and deep into our own hearts and then let the truth stand.



In some ways the Book of Job is frightening. It demands that we put complete trust in God in spite of everything we hear, see, feel and understand being totally the opposite of what we believe it should be if it is in God's safe, loving hands. If ever there is a lesson that we must not construct a belief system on the basis of how things appear to be - then Job is a screamer of an example. Job's helpers spend their time doing just that, explaining to Job what God is doing and why it happened. Are we listening?



Yet Rick Warren starts off by developing a methodology called Seeker Sensitive by asking what it is that people want to hear, see, feel and understand in church and then he lays it on thick. Jealous to see the same explosive growth in their churches over 100,000 pastors have committed to following Warren in what he calls his reformation of the church while the sheep trust the guardianship of the Word of God to these leaders. He even has pastors taking down crosses because it offends people (1Cor.1:18).



And hands up if you ever doubted God on the basis of how things were working out? I haven't got enough hands! Many of us have stumbled because of this but thank God Father knows our frame and remembers we are but dust and picks us up again.



The error of moving from experience to practice to doctrine instead of from Biblical doctrine to practice to experience is very tempting (Warren is generating a fortune from its popularity and it's in almost all church libraries/bookstores) and when events move into the final seven years, Satan will have prepared the leaders of the one world religion by signs and lying wonders deceiving them because they loved not the truth. (2 Thess.2:9-11).



So there is a bigger question at stake here - the love of the truth. Jesus said He was the Way the Truth and the Life. We are talking about loving and knowing God. That is the reason many in the deliverance ministry will go to hell. Many will experience a false salvation followed by a false ministry. (Matt.7:21-23)



In no way am I suggesting brother F_______ is a false believer (for I'd have to point that finger first at myself), but I am saying we all need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and give no room to personalities in this war.



I intend to consider how Derek Prince and Don Basham developed the deliverance model and other doctrines that have resulted in confusion and bondage when it was intended to bring freedom to the church and these doctrines have permeated the church worldwide.



1. It was just another Sunday in church, or so I thought. The elderly minister insisted the boys sat on one side of the upper gallery and the girls on the other which was wonderful for eying up whoever you fancied and also resulted in quite a bit of teenage and twenties mischievous distractions while downstairs a few men prepared for God's day of rest by falling asleep during the sermon.



Something had happened inside me: the Word of God had become alive and I couldn't put it down. I was hungry to find out all I could about God's salvation but funny enough I didn't expect to find out much in my church. However the minister was having a missionary speak and Ernie Tuff was just back on furlough from the Upper Volta in Africa. I'd heard missionaries before but when Ernie spoke it was like the church shook. You could hear a pin drop. Everyone was hanging on every word like it was a matter of life and death because Ernie made you realize... it was a matter of life and death. There was no sleeping, no misbehaving, no eying up the opposite sex because everyone was listening to Ernie and over and over my head was pounding with these words, "He taught with authority and not as the scribes and Pharisees". I'd never seen such power before. I didn't know you could know God like that!



You know the one-liner, "Whatever he had I'll take a pint of"? Well I went to see Ernie right after the service and said, Whatever you have - I want it! I want to know God like you do.



Earlier I mentioned about the local pentecostal minister saying the four of us going up the town late at night were turning it upside down.. well Ernie Tuff was responsible for planting the seeds in us for that. You see Ernie was heavily into the deliverance ministry except it was not to Christians, it was to the possessed who reacted in exactly the same way to the preaching of Jesus as we read the demons reacted to Jesus preaching in the Gospels.



So Ernie taught me the secret of speaking and ministering in power. He said, take 30 mins every day and pray. It doesn't matter if you only speak for 5 mins, just stay there for 30 mins and in time you will pray for 30 mins. He gave me a copy of Kneeling We Triumph and said read a section (2 pages) before praying. Now I was 16 and as dumb as a 16 year old rock guitarist who practiced for 8 hrs a day could be, so when the time soon came that starting with a 5 min prayer grew into filling more than 30 mins could hold, I needed to go back to Ernie.



"I have a problem Ernie" I said. " I can't fit all my prayers into 30 mins - what should I do?" Ernie smiled knowingly and said, "Make it 60 mins now". In a few months I found I had to pull the strings off my '63 Strat and put it under the bed because my prayer and Bible study was taking up my 8 hrs that I allocated to music practice.



That was Ernie's secret. That was why the town was being turned upside down. You see Ernie didn't have a formula for deliverance. In fact he didn't even go looking for demons because the possessed ran to him like they did to Jesus. The person either called out for mercy or the demons just freaked out. In fact it happened when Ernie wasn't preaching - just being around Ernie was too much for demons.



Unfortunately for me Ernie went back to the lost in Africa where now the church is strong and sends evangelists back to the UK resisting abominations like teaching homosexuals are good to go. When Ernie went I missed his wisdom so much, but then Derek Prince came on the scene and his deliverance ministry in the church was spectacular. So how did it all go wrong?



When I was 20 my Presbyterian church wanted me to become an elder. I even had a 55 year old elder say that he looked to me as a fatherly figure. I laughed at them and said I could become "a younger" if there was such a position in the Bible, but in no way could I qualify as an elder. But perhaps based on Timothy's youth it might have been a good thing if I had accepted. The thing was I was looking for an older man who could instruct me in the ways of God and Derek, specializing in logic at Cambridge seemed to have the maturity, wisdom and fire for God that I was looking for. Thus I joined a church that Derek was heavily involved in.



What was one of the strengths that Derek had that I thought was good? Logic! That's well ahead of common sense but as we saw with Rick Warren, logic can sure get in God's way. In fact He selects the foolish things to shame all the wisdom of Satan and the weak things are perfect for demonstrating His strength. God doesn't need our help!



One little error... just one, resulted in catastrophic results about 16 yrs after the logic seed was planted. The error was thinking that the church was the Kingdom of God on earth - like the NAR movement now, instead of the church being an agent of the Kingdom of God... and from that seed grew the question who is God using to represent and communicate and structure his church on earth? A single pope like figure was rejected because logic proved total power in one man is not good, so it was decided that a group of 5 submitted to each other was the way to go.



It would take a huge thread to cover the incredible problems that grew out of that error, how it multiplied and the lives destroyed. From identifying a problem that didn't exist, using logic to find an answer that God didn't provide, tens of thousands of believers were shipwrecked in their faith. It was one of the battles lost in the war on the saints.



I wanted to meet with Derek to put to him that we had developed a model that was out of control only to find Derek had left the movement and repented of his involvement, stopped publication of his book Shepherding, Discipleship & Committeemen and left the CGM leadership.



But there was another formula that was developed inside the Shepherding movement and that was the Deliverance model, and it was founded on the error that born again believers could have indwelling demons. But Shepherding and Discipleship were not the only things that got messed up because models were being built that were contrary to the Word. There was also Fatherhood which operated at a higher level than Shepherding and then there was the ecumenical movement when Roman Catholics were granted full acceptance into the universal church and no attempt was made to correct the Biblical errors on Romanism. In fact it was embraced as being a genuine expression of sincere hearts towards God.



It is important to understand that when Don Basham, one of the top 5 CGM leaders wrote Deliver Us From Evil and the model for deliverance ministries was pretty much developed around that period, it was when the seeds of error in Shepherding, Discipleship, Commitment, Fathering were all being sown and then reformation doctrine was thrown to the wind with the Ecumenical involvement of CGM.



Sincere men formulated theological models based on logic more than on the word of God allowing experience and logic to mold their thinking and disregarding proper doctrine. The fact was that these churches were dynamic and seemed to demonstrate the power of God, especially when deliverance meeting tool place. But even in healing Derek taught using leg lengthening as a key of faith. We would get people who wanted healing to sit up on a hard chair and show then their legs were different lengths (most of us have a little difference but some have quite a lot). Derek would say, God wants you to have faith for healing so when you see you leg grow your faith will increase. We would support both legs and without any trickery the short leg would grow.



You see if you get hooked by signs and wonders and don't dig deep into the Word of God and learn doctrine, logic and good intentions will lead you far from God.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Now back to the deliverance ministry. To sweeten the pill that believers have demons, the term possession is never used except in rare occasions when someone was off their heads. Instead we would use the term demonized and explain that a demon inhabits a small area of the brain. It doesn't possess the believer but say a demon of anger will come into power when we lose our temper.



By this error people are taught that demons reside in just about ALL believers so everyone needs delivered. There is lots of teaching on demons that is simply extra-Biblical and flies in the face of what God in Christ has done for us but the problem is correct doctrine is not taught.



Thus by signs and wonders the church is deceived into thinking they are growing in maturity, warring against the devil and glorifying Christ while in reality they are immature by Paul's test (Heb.5:12-13) because they know little of sound doctrine, they are brought into bondage to demons and diminish the power of God in Salvation.



This is why it is taught a believer can have a demon that will torment them all their lives and the only way for victorious living is to have it expelled. Rather than teach as Paul did on the things that God has done so we are transformed by the renewing of our minds many take the short cut to blame demons and play psychological games. When you set someone on a chair and ask them to begin deep breathing to relax, and then tell them you will pray over them for a demon to name itself, begin praying and ask them what thought came into their mind, you are programming them to get something in their heads.



Creating a demonic problem that doesn't exist like this and then formulating the answer while it all flies in the face of Scripture and was never exemplified by the apostles is actually exalting demons to the point that pandemonium can and does happen.



We need to take very seriously the warning Jesus kindly gave us that many will do miracles and cast out demons in His Name but He replied, I NEVER KNEW YOU.



So my plea is, test these things by the Word of God. We have no room for loving leaders to the point we shy away from asking them to explain how they contradict God's Word, because you might just save someone's life.



In the OT they lost the books of the law for a time because they turned away from God to going their own way and it's a fact that many churches have lost the Gospel and gone their own way. Many don't believe in an eternal hell, judgment etc. but many of the ones who do believe the whole Gospel don't know how to preach it.



I was at a conference where this pastor puts on probably the biggest Christmas light show ever in the church grounds that attracts huge visitor numbers just so he can preach the Gospel. He got over 5000 decisions at that Christmas but only about 50 of the 5000 came to church. He was searching for answers for what went wrong but when I heard his Gospel presentation, goodness he had easy believism down to a tee. However he had WoF answers for every problem under the sum.



If we lose the Gospel, or the power to present it in its awesome glory and terror, then you can be pretty sure sermons will not be well tied in to the cross and thus the church will be immature. A great Gospel leads to searching out and growing in the treasures of our salvation. That is why deliverance ministries bring believers into demonic bonds, because they don't know the power of God unto salvation and what a great salvation it is. Inadvertently they build the very things they seek to destroy.



1. I agree completely that any Christian cannot be possessed by a demon - given we have an agreement of what possession means. I would think it would be someone who has virtually little control of their senses and actions (eg Mark 5:1-5). I just want to share something that happened back in 2004 with a former partner of mine. She was and still is Christian. At the time she was at a bad point in life and engaging in some serious sin. One night she said she wasn't feeling well and asked me to pray for her. This was late at night just in my home unit in Sydney. No church or WoF or anything, just me and my partner at the time. Anyway I obliged her request and prayed.



I can't recall the words exactly but recall saying something like in the name of Jesus I command whatever is troubling (name) to stop it (or similar). In a matter of seconds, she started speaking back to me with an angry hoarsy voice saying 'don't you dare speak to me like that' and her eyes were looking like they were rolling back and so on. Now to my mind at the time I figured I was addressing a spirit and so continued with this. While I wasn't afraid, I did find it quite disturbing. Anyway, I changed direction briefly and thought it might help if I lead her in prayer. I was planning on just leading her to pray after me to ask Jesus to forgive me of any sin and so on. There I encountered yet another problem - she couldn't pray and she couldn't even say the name 'Jesus' and was making weird little noises like whispering or spitting. To cut the story brief here, I continued praying for her as I did previously and after some time the drama settled and she said she felt much better and free of it.



So what was this? I wasn't looking for it. It was someone simply requesting me to pray for them. It's the only time I have ever encountered something like this. I know it wasn't ' demonic possession'. Sure this person has had some problems such as depression and anxiety and such but has never shown to have any kind of schizophrenia. Further I should say my own faith at the time wasn't in a good place with various life trials. Regardless I totally believed then as I do now in the power of Jesus over any and every demonic spirit. I have shared this previously elsewhere and was accused of compromising my witness for the whole world to see on a public Christian forum. I trust there's no one here who will react the same. For the record, I don't in any way intend to elevate the devil or demons and I am not part of, or agree with the WoF error teaching. I also understand that as we submit to God and resist the devil, he will flee (James 4:7). While the worldwide deliverance ministry may be in error as mentioned, doctrinal error, I don't think this particular instance was the same practised in that ministry because I was simply praying for someone who asked for prayer. Yeah perhaps I made mistakes in this instance, perhaps what I did was similar to those deliverance ministries but I wouldn't ever consider that I am part of the cohort of Matthew 7:21-23, even if that means praying for someone again in a similar situation.



Thanks Steve for your post because it is disturbing for anyone who experiences such an event and needs a strong Biblical response and not man's opinion. It's also clear you are seeking truth so I hope there might be something here that helps. Manifestations like this were the problem Don Basham (who wrote Deliver Us From Evil) faced and in response, plain doctrinal truth was shunted sideways to give space think up answers that accommodate manifestations. Then out of that grew wisdom and logic that was not in the Bible and ran completely contrary to the Word of God. Based on that new wisdom a methodology of exposing and expelling demons was developed which is pretty much a standard model adopted by countless churches all over the world.



It is fatally flawed above all because it doesn't distinguish saved from the unsaved and thus doctrinally it runs counter to the Word and builds error upon error, but all too often that doesn't matter to those involved so long as it appears successful. The result of this success are believers who never grow up into maturity and get taken by winds of doctrine while thinking these deliverance manifestations are the sure sign of a very mature faith. Such is the strength of belief in their Christian maturity that at the judgment and facing hell, many who believe they are saved and mature will use casting out demons as evidence in a shocked request for Jesus to reconsider that He has got their condemnation wrong!



We have to start with first doctrinal principles and not get diverted by any demonic diversions. Taking your specific example, if someone really is a Christian yet involved in serious sin (and I need to disregard the question mark that places on their salvation for the moment), then they will be in a state of mental and emotional turmoil and inner conflicts that seem to set up openings for manifestations. Deep inner truth and sin can't cohabit for long without something breaking and often that is some degree of sanity. On the other hand, the further we move away from evidence of a genuine conversion then the easier it is to live in deep sin and be at peace with oneself while professing salvation. The homosexual debate is a current example with doctrine being cast down in favor of a one sided view of the love of God.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Now there are enough issues in your problem case to set up openings for manifestations but when you add into the mix a history of depression, anxiety and perhaps medications then a lot can happen and in my experience... it often does happen and especially so in these last days. We are moving into a period immediately prior to the great delusion when manifestations will convince the world to reject Jesus.



I had lunch with David Ravenhill some time after manifestations were breaking out in Brownsville and he wasn't sure what to do about it. David was preaching and it was nothing to do with calling down the Holy Spirit when weird things began to happen. Questions were asked, is this just people doing this, or is it demons, or is it God and in your case the first two questions apply. In your situation I'd have to say there are too many if's and concerns for me to give emphatic answers without first hand knowledge but if someone is playing with strange fire (sin) and a demon takes advantage of the situation, then really it is par for the course. Was it an indwelling demon? I don't know because I don't know if she was truly saved. Was it a passing demon affecting her in a similar capacity to its ability to tempt or hit emotional buttons without entering the body? Sure could be. It was in any event a big wake up call.



John Wimber faced the same problem with Toronto manifestation and eventually decided it was not right to continue the Vineyard associations. But John was also developing methodologies for signs and wonders that opened up doors for false prophets and boy what a mess that turned out to be and then IHOP came out of that. With the benefit of decades of history of these manifestations that leaders didn't have when these things were first showing, we can now see the fall out in doctrinal destruction that has happened. The fruit is not only bad but it's getting much worse and proliferating at an exponential rate. The end times church is seriously troubled with doctrines of demons that exalt manifestations, exalt demonic resistance and power, debase the power of Christ's salvation, take the emphasis off Jesus (often on to the Holy Spirit that Jesus said will never draw attention to Himself), confuse believers and hold them in a state of bondage and immaturity while convincing them they are mature, exalt preachers as great men of God that sell formulas and methodologies to the pastors that reinforce these lies, debase doctrinal truth and put everything from unity to manifestations above it and we are probably one step away from manifestations that are part and parcel with the great delusion.



So what do we all do Steve when weird things happen? I think we redouble our prayers regarding "lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil". We need to learn sound doctrine but above all we need to know Jesus through doctrine for the terrifying thing Jesus implied when He said," I never knew you" is it is the equivalent of Him saying, "You never knew Me".



Each of us needs to be on our guard and do as the Bible says... 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor.13:5



At the judgment many will think they have Jesus Christ in them only to find it was another spirit. If we veer off the Word but think we are going in the right direction because we see "God's confirmations" in miracles or the deliverance ministry or prophesy, but all the time we are building doctrines that are extra Biblical (going beyond what is written) to move us away from the simplicity in Christ, or are downright in opposition to true doctrine, then we are in the gravest of dangers while thinking we are at the cutting edge of heaven but in reality, we are on the edge of hell.



But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 2 Cor.11:3



1. can only imagine that some Pastors/leaders/teachers are somewhat at a loss here, and may not feel confident in how to go about addressing these things.



1 Cor.4:6... that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. (NIV)



that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. (KJV)



that in us ye may learn not to think above that which hath been written, that ye may not be puffed up one for one against the other (Young's Literal Translation)



When leaders go beyond what is written and become sources of spiritual knowledge and techniques and methods that falsely prove themselves to be from God by virtue of manifestations, there is a root of pride at work that puffs up against each other. Pride causes divisions and pride was the first sin that brought about the devils fall. Pride was behind Eve's thirst for spiritual knowledge and desire to become like gods.



Unfortunately there is no sin that is better at masquerading as humility or having a million deceptions as pride. Only the Word of God and the Spirit of God can root this thing out. That is why if we come across leaders who go beyond what is written, run for your life.



As soon as you bring doctrinal truth to bear against false doctrine this verse shows that you encounter the cult of personalities and the shield of pride. No matter how gently you frame your words the two edged sword is going to cut both ways - into the soul and spirit of the believer and into the enemy. You can't bring light into darkness without hurts - that's just how it is.



Firstly, I have found the best way is to take a quiet, humble questioning approach, even asking for help in investigating Scriptures you are having difficulty with in the light of what is being taught. A bombastic confrontational approach tends to make people dig their heels in and cling to personalities rather than encouraging them to be noble Bereans. However even making progress in this seldom works because it is like stretching an elastic band - you come back to the topic a few weeks later and everything is back to where it was.



To counter this I support anything that I say with a letter full of Scriptures and explanations and fortunately you don't have to invent the wheel as there are good resources on the Internet. How lengthy a discourse you compose depends on how mature they are and how hard you hit them needs to be weighed up before God in the same way as sharing the Gospel...



21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.



If people are convinced you love them it helps so you need time to convince them of that. Bathed in prayer and the Word, this is intense spiritual warfare because to give up on long held beliefs that seemingly great men of God espouse is hard. It probably always results in many great friendships coming to a hard ending and separation.



*9



1. I've been a Christian for 43 years and I have never heard a sermon on this. Maybe a lot of us haven't. That could be one reason the deliverance ministry took off. There hasn't been enough teaching that is based on the truth of the bible so this false teaching "sounds" right to those who are new or haven't read their bibles on their own. I have always known a Christian cannot be possessed, but again in my experience I haven't heard any teaching on oppression either. Preachers I've had basically ignore this also. If we are to be victorious against the enemy why aren't we being equipped for the battle? I always pray for help against the enemy. I've been told a few times from other Christians you need to rebuke the demon aloud in the name of Jesus. I have never done this. I never heard any other Christian do this personally. I have eagerly watched this thread. It has been absorbing and wonderful teaching. Maybe you could expand on Christian oppression?



Good questions P --- . The best way to show the power of a light is to shine it in darkness and the best way to show truth is to firstly teach it in depth and then contrast it with error so the flock of God is not "ignorant of Satan's devices" (2Cor.2:11).



We can take any assault on the church and find this is true. For example Roman Catholicism is making great strides into the protestant churches because exceedingly few know what to protest about. The result is some depart the faith and go into the idol cult of Maryology and hundreds of thousands if not millions are caught up in Spiritual Formations or Contemplative Prayers which exemplify what we have been discussing.



You ask why are we not being equipped for the battle? There are many reasons such as seminaries that have embraced hellish doctrines, pastors that are desirous of success and so follow the seemingly successful but whatever way we examine the problem there is one over riding issue: such leaders do not know God. When we dig into what happened at Calvary it is so profound, so exciting and so astounding that every sermon worth its salt takes us back in wonder to the cross so we understand the depth of the sermon. There is so little preaching that leaves one stunned at what God has done that praises burst forth from the depths of our beings and makes false teaching stand out as corruptions of the truth.



Now regarding oppression from demons, most certainly they oppose us. As we looked at earlier, God allows fiery trials to work for His glory so right away we see we cannot divorce demonic operations against us from the will of God in Christ Jesus. The timing of God's view of patience doing her perfect work (James.1:4) is not up to us - God is sovereign and He decides. We can rebuke all we want but if God says My grace is sufficient nothing will change apart from grace growing in us. If God says in a little while He will bruise Satan under your feet, we can pray and ask God to shorten the period but it is up to God. We can rebuke all we want but neither us nor the demon is in control! This is all a work that God allows to grow grace in us, to make us see HE alone is sovereign over all, to make us draw closer to Him, to glorify him, to mature us etc. so we need to work with God and not in opposition to God. Eph.3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:



10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.



13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.



14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,



Tribulation are the real oppressions of the devil and if Paul didn't escape it you can be sure the more we take the Gospel out there the more we will suffer too. Paul immediately fell to his knees praying for what? Revelation for the church about the glory of the Gospel in them!



So when it comes to oppression or tribulation, I hate to say this because as Paul says, no discipline is pleasant for the moment but it yields a fruit of righteousness.



Now if you are referring to some atmospheric oppression, I don't have a problem with saying as Michael said, The Lord rebuke you Satan but my prayers are thereafter directed to God to ask Him to bruise Satan under my feet. False teaching will go beyond what is written and tell you to say, "Satan I bind you in the name of Jesus!"



Got any apostles doing that?



Or, "Satan the blood of Jesus is against you!"



Er, got any Apostles doing that?



Remember the Apostles were at war like never before. Satan had never come across the church before and he was going to stop it with every weapon he had - but we never see the apostles doing this. Why then is much of the church doing it?



Bob DeWaay is a great source for pastors and believers who want to examine current teaching to see if it is in line with the Word or false teaching...



Critical Issues Commentary



I forgot Bob had an issue on demons and deliverance...



Critical Issues Commentary: The Gospel as the True Armor of God



False Spiritual Warfare...



Critical Issues Commentary: False Spiritual Warfare Teachings: How the Church Becomes Pagan



True and False Binding and Losing...



Critical Issues Commentary: True and False Binding and Loosing How Deliverance Ministries Lead People Into Bondage...



Critical Issues Commentary: How Deliverance Ministries Lead People to Bondage



1. Yes indeed, one of the first signs and warnings Jesus told His disciples on the Mount of Olives was to beware of false Christs (Matthew 24:3-8; Mark 13:3-8; Luke 21:7-11).



I think some of those verses you cite would equally apply to the false gospel of salvation by works too, which is another topic altogether though to mention from observations, is just as damaging to the faith.



I'm reminded as I been reading through the additional posts here, and your reply to me I quote above, that we as children of God in Christ, standing on the word of truth, can be fully confident in our Lord to trust Him. This actually comes from personal learning too over the years. Several verses that I'm mindful of with regard to this include:



Romans 8:31-39 (38,39 cited) For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.



John 10:27-30 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.



1 Peter 1:3-5 (5 cited) Who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Now there are enough issues in your problem case to set up openings for manifestations but when you add into the mix a history of depression, anxiety and perhaps medications then a lot can happen and in my experience... it often does happen and especially so in these last days. We are moving into a period immediately prior to the great delusion when manifestations will convince the world to reject Jesus.



I had lunch with David Ravenhill some time after manifestations were breaking out in Brownsville and he wasn't sure what to do about it. David was preaching and it was nothing to do with calling down the Holy Spirit when weird things began to happen. Questions were asked, is this just people doing this, or is it demons, or is it God and in your case the first two questions apply. In your situation I'd have to say there are too many if's and concerns for me to give emphatic answers without first hand knowledge but if someone is playing with strange fire (sin) and a demon takes advantage of the situation, then really it is par for the course. Was it an indwelling demon? I don't know because I don't know if she was truly saved. Was it a passing demon affecting her in a similar capacity to its ability to tempt or hit emotional buttons without entering the body? Sure could be. It was in any event a big wake up call.



John Wimber faced the same problem with Toronto manifestation and eventually decided it was not right to continue the Vineyard associations. But John was also developing methodologies for signs and wonders that opened up doors for false prophets and boy what a mess that turned out to be and then IHOP came out of that. With the benefit of decades of history of these manifestations that leaders didn't have when these things were first showing, we can now see the fall out in doctrinal destruction that has happened. The fruit is not only bad but it's getting much worse and proliferating at an exponential rate. The end times church is seriously troubled with doctrines of demons that exalt manifestations, exalt demonic resistance and power, debase the power of Christ's salvation, take the emphasis off Jesus (often on to the Holy Spirit that Jesus said will never draw attention to Himself), confuse believers and hold them in a state of bondage and immaturity while convincing them they are mature, exalt preachers as great men of God that sell formulas and methodologies to the pastors that reinforce these lies, debase doctrinal truth and put everything from unity to manifestations above it and we are probably one step away from manifestations that are part and parcel with the great delusion.



So what do we all do Steve when weird things happen? I think we redouble our prayers regarding "lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil". We need to learn sound doctrine but above all we need to know Jesus through doctrine for the terrifying thing Jesus implied when He said," I never knew you" is it is the equivalent of Him saying, "You never knew Me".



Each of us needs to be on our guard and do as the Bible says... 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor.13:5



At the judgment many will think they have Jesus Christ in them only to find it was another spirit. If we veer off the Word but think we are going in the right direction because we see "God's confirmations" in miracles or the deliverance ministry or prophesy, but all the time we are building doctrines that are extra Biblical (going beyond what is written) to move us away from the simplicity in Christ, or are downright in opposition to true doctrine, then we are in the gravest of dangers while thinking we are at the cutting edge of heaven but in reality, we are on the edge of hell.



But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 2 Cor.11:3



1. can only imagine that some Pastors/leaders/teachers are somewhat at a loss here, and may not feel confident in how to go about addressing these things.



1 Cor.4:6... that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. (NIV)



that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. (KJV)



that in us ye may learn not to think above that which hath been written, that ye may not be puffed up one for one against the other (Young's Literal Translation)



When leaders go beyond what is written and become sources of spiritual knowledge and techniques and methods that falsely prove themselves to be from God by virtue of manifestations, there is a root of pride at work that puffs up against each other. Pride causes divisions and pride was the first sin that brought about the devils fall. Pride was behind Eve's thirst for spiritual knowledge and desire to become like gods.



Unfortunately there is no sin that is better at masquerading as humility or having a million deceptions as pride. Only the Word of God and the Spirit of God can root this thing out. That is why if we come across leaders who go beyond what is written, run for your life.



As soon as you bring doctrinal truth to bear against false doctrine this verse shows that you encounter the cult of personalities and the shield of pride. No matter how gently you frame your words the two edged sword is going to cut both ways - into the soul and spirit of the believer and into the enemy. You can't bring light into darkness without hurts - that's just how it is.



Firstly, I have found the best way is to take a quiet, humble questioning approach, even asking for help in investigating Scriptures you are having difficulty with in the light of what is being taught. A bombastic confrontational approach tends to make people dig their heels in and cling to personalities rather than encouraging them to be noble Bereans. However even making progress in this seldom works because it is like stretching an elastic band - you come back to the topic a few weeks later and everything is back to where it was.



To counter this I support anything that I say with a letter full of Scriptures and explanations and fortunately you don't have to invent the wheel as there are good resources on the Internet. How lengthy a discourse you compose depends on how mature they are and how hard you hit them needs to be weighed up before God in the same way as sharing the Gospel...



21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.



If people are convinced you love them it helps so you need time to convince them of that. Bathed in prayer and the Word, this is intense spiritual warfare because to give up on long held beliefs that seemingly great men of God espouse is hard. It probably always results in many great friendships coming to a hard ending and separation.



*9



1. I've been a Christian for 43 years and I have never heard a sermon on this. Maybe a lot of us haven't. That could be one reason the deliverance ministry took off. There hasn't been enough teaching that is based on the truth of the bible so this false teaching "sounds" right to those who are new or haven't read their bibles on their own. I have always known a Christian cannot be possessed, but again in my experience I haven't heard any teaching on oppression either. Preachers I've had basically ignore this also. If we are to be victorious against the enemy why aren't we being equipped for the battle? I always pray for help against the enemy. I've been told a few times from other Christians you need to rebuke the demon aloud in the name of Jesus. I have never done this. I never heard any other Christian do this personally. I have eagerly watched this thread. It has been absorbing and wonderful teaching. Maybe you could expand on Christian oppression?



Good questions P --- . The best way to show the power of a light is to shine it in darkness and the best way to show truth is to firstly teach it in depth and then contrast it with error so the flock of God is not "ignorant of Satan's devices" (2Cor.2:11).



We can take any assault on the church and find this is true. For example Roman Catholicism is making great strides into the protestant churches because exceedingly few know what to protest about. The result is some depart the faith and go into the idol cult of Maryology and hundreds of thousands if not millions are caught up in Spiritual Formations or Contemplative Prayers which exemplify what we have been discussing.



You ask why are we not being equipped for the battle? There are many reasons such as seminaries that have embraced hellish doctrines, pastors that are desirous of success and so follow the seemingly successful but whatever way we examine the problem there is one over riding issue: such leaders do not know God. When we dig into what happened at Calvary it is so profound, so exciting and so astounding that every sermon worth its salt takes us back in wonder to the cross so we understand the depth of the sermon. There is so little preaching that leaves one stunned at what God has done that praises burst forth from the depths of our beings and makes false teaching stand out as corruptions of the truth.



Now regarding oppression from demons, most certainly they oppose us. As we looked at earlier, God allows fiery trials to work for His glory so right away we see we cannot divorce demonic operations against us from the will of God in Christ Jesus. The timing of God's view of patience doing her perfect work (James.1:4) is not up to us - God is sovereign and He decides. We can rebuke all we want but if God says My grace is sufficient nothing will change apart from grace growing in us. If God says in a little while He will bruise Satan under your feet, we can pray and ask God to shorten the period but it is up to God. We can rebuke all we want but neither us nor the demon is in control! This is all a work that God allows to grow grace in us, to make us see HE alone is sovereign over all, to make us draw closer to Him, to glorify him, to mature us etc. so we need to work with God and not in opposition to God. Eph.3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:



10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.



13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.



14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,



Tribulation are the real oppressions of the devil and if Paul didn't escape it you can be sure the more we take the Gospel out there the more we will suffer too. Paul immediately fell to his knees praying for what? Revelation for the church about the glory of the Gospel in them!



So when it comes to oppression or tribulation, I hate to say this because as Paul says, no discipline is pleasant for the moment but it yields a fruit of righteousness.



Now if you are referring to some atmospheric oppression, I don't have a problem with saying as Michael said, The Lord rebuke you Satan but my prayers are thereafter directed to God to ask Him to bruise Satan under my feet. False teaching will go beyond what is written and tell you to say, "Satan I bind you in the name of Jesus!"



Got any apostles doing that?



Or, "Satan the blood of Jesus is against you!"



Er, got any Apostles doing that?



Remember the Apostles were at war like never before. Satan had never come across the church before and he was going to stop it with every weapon he had - but we never see the apostles doing this. Why then is much of the church doing it?



Bob DeWaay is a great source for pastors and believers who want to examine current teaching to see if it is in line with the Word or false teaching...



Critical Issues Commentary



I forgot Bob had an issue on demons and deliverance...



Critical Issues Commentary: The Gospel as the True Armor of God



False Spiritual Warfare...



Critical Issues Commentary: False Spiritual Warfare Teachings: How the Church Becomes Pagan



True and False Binding and Losing...



Critical Issues Commentary: True and False Binding and Loosing How Deliverance Ministries Lead People Into Bondage...



Critical Issues Commentary: How Deliverance Ministries Lead People to Bondage



1. Yes indeed, one of the first signs and warnings Jesus told His disciples on the Mount of Olives was to beware of false Christs (Matthew 24:3-8; Mark 13:3-8; Luke 21:7-11).



I think some of those verses you cite would equally apply to the false gospel of salvation by works too, which is another topic altogether though to mention from observations, is just as damaging to the faith.



I'm reminded as I been reading through the additional posts here, and your reply to me I quote above, that we as children of God in Christ, standing on the word of truth, can be fully confident in our Lord to trust Him. This actually comes from personal learning too over the years. Several verses that I'm mindful of with regard to this include:



Romans 8:31-39 (38,39 cited) For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.



John 10:27-30 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.



1 Peter 1:3-5 (5 cited) Who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Thank you so much for writing these posts. I came out of a Charismatic church that I found myself in shortly after getting saved. Right away I was confused by what I was seeing as I couldn’t find scripture to support it. I stayed for 1 and half years as I kept studying the Bible and watching. I would ask for scripture form the lady “elder” of a speaking in tongues prayer group and from others. I would just get blank stares, or flat out ignored.

It really alarmed me and so I kept digging in his word. I ultimately realized none of what they were doing was Biblical and it led to me losing a friend. She had the audacity to claim I was being used by Satan for wanting a Biblically solid church and telling others to go to one instead. Yet, she couldn’t tell him how to know if one was saved in the Bible. I kid you not, I asked her one day how she knew someone was saved (she was always claiming her loved ones were saved who were living contrary to scripture) and she told me to google it.

I was floored. Nothing about the Gospel or our Faith in Jesus Christ. It was scary. It still saddens me how she cut me off and made false claims against me but I pray for her and forgave her a long time ago. The WOF movement and Charismatic movements are dangerous and brilliant from a Satanic perspective.

 

[Everlasting Life]

Thank you so much for writing these posts. I came out of a Charismatic church that I found myself in shortly after getting saved. Right away I was confused by what I was seeing as I couldn’t find scripture to support it. I stayed for 1 and half years as I kept studying the Bible and watching. I would ask for scripture form the lady “elder” of a speaking in tongues prayer group and from others. I would just get blank stares, or flat out ignored.

It really alarmed me and so I kept digging in his word. I ultimately realized none of what they were doing was Biblical and it led to me losing a friend. She had the audacity to claim I was being used by Satan for wanting a Biblically solid church and telling others to go to one instead. Yet, she couldn’t tell him how to know if one was saved in the Bible. I kid you not, I asked her one day how she knew someone was saved (she was always claiming her loved ones were saved who were living contrary to scripture) and she told me to google it.

I was floored. Nothing about the Gospel or our Faith in Jesus Christ. It was scary. It still saddens me how she cut me off and made false claims against me but I pray for her and forgave her a long time ago. The WOF movement and Charismatic movements are dangerous and brilliant from a Satanic perspective.

Cheeky, I'm so glad you appreciated these posts. I didn't write them however. I came across these from someone else and thought they were so good it was worth sharing.

It sounds like because you were in God's Word, His Word was God's spiritual protective care over you and in you! Praise God you were kept from further pain and suffering!

How wise you were to be a Berean and look for scriptural support!! And where this 'leader' was demeaning to you, the Apostle Paul himself would praise you as he did with the Bereans who double checked even Paul's own teachings with scripture..... there was no chastisement from Paul on this!

 

[mattfivefour]

Unfortunately there is no sin that is better at masquerading as humility or having a million deceptions as pride. Only the Word of God and the Spirit of God can root this thing out. That is why if we come across leaders who go beyond what is written, run for your life.

Amen!!!

 

[Andiamo]

No way no how can a demon reside in a Christian. Oppressed, yes if that person is not walking in the freedom and authority of Christ…but never possessed.
Hello. God Himself lives there, within us.