Just a curious question....

[Yulianla2456]

Why didn't God give the option for us to choose non-existence before we decided to sin?

Okay, let me clarify things:

As I understand the gospel, humanity is in a sticky situation--and one they cannot get out of of their own power. That situation is the state of their eternal souls, the immaterial aspect of them that exists or goes on forever.....

Which means that if we were to die in a particular state, for better or worse, we will remain in that state in relentless perpetuity unremittingly in an atemporal existence--one where time has no application.

The situation that humanity is in is that they are in sin or they have a sin nature. A sin nature, as we define it, is one where we are naturally predisposed to want to rebel against God and His will for our lives. If, what they say is true, that the penalty is death, which is defined in biblical terms, as a separation, then the consequences of rebelling against God ultimately lead to a horrendous everlasting existence spent shut out of His presence. This is due to the fact that, understandably, being a holy and righteous God, He cannot be in the presence of sinners and if He were to let sinners into Heaven the way they were, they would turn Heaven into the Earth in its current fallen state.

Totally understandable. I don't deny that. I have absolutely no problem with God wanting to keep sin out of His Kingdom. If I were Him and I had specific standards of what I want in my household and what I don't want, I would keep things that I didn't want in it out as well. It's His Kingdom, no problem.

Now, here's where I have a problem: being given the choice as to where I will spend eternity, either with God or without God. The issue is, is that, I don't want to spend eternity anywhere. I am just someone who just wants to live life on Earth and then die, nothing more. The problem is, I have to exist somewhere eternally after I die. I don't want any part of the battle between good and evil, and I don't want any part of Heaven or Hell. I don't love or value God enough to want to spend eternity with Him, and I certainly do not, like any normal, sane person, want to spend eternity burning in pitch black darkness in complete and utter agony.

Thus, there is no place in God's Universe for people like me. We don't want Heaven and we don't want Hell. Therefore, we should've, at least in my opinion, had the option to choose non-existence before we started sinning--like a game host who lays out the rules of playing should we choose to participate and the consequences of making a certain decision, God could give people full revelation of what sin is and the divine consequences of choosing it, an eternity spent in Hell, and then decide if they want to keep living in His Universe or go back into non-existence.

Given the high price and my natural unwillingness to submit to The Lord or any authority, I know that I want nonexistence. At least then I would be innocent of sin, and thus, be free of accountability, and thus, wouldn't think about nor care about spending eternity anywhere.

I imagine a win-win scenario: those who want and love God for who He is and not because of fear of Hell can enjoy eternity with Him, and all those who do not have any natural affection or affinity for Him can choose a state of non-existence--a painless state where they're unaware of anything. Live and let live.

I mean, where is it stated in the cards that it has to be a win-lose scenario?

 

[Armor of Light]

Why didn't God give the option for us to choose non-existence before we decided to sin?

We did not decide to sin, we are sinners, we are born sinners as are all of our ancestors before us, and Father God's plan is for all to be saved through Jesus his son, and you have the choice to listen to the gospel message , read the gospels for your self and while doing so see how much God loves you and how much Jesus paid to save your soul so you can repent and change you way of thinking and turn to His way or carry on in your own way which leads to endless misery. The more you read the word it is so easy to see God's eternal plan and importance for your soul to be saved, all that is necessary/required is submission, none escape the sin penalty of spiritual death except those who choose to follow Jesus, asking him to save your soul and be your savior.

Given the high price and my natural unwillingness to submit to The Lord or any authority, I know that I want nonexistence. At least then I would be innocent of sin, and thus, be free of accountability, and thus, wouldn't think about nor care about spending eternity anywhere.

The only way to be innocent or free of sin is to have ALL your sins past/present and future completely washed clean by the blood of Jesus, the lamb who was slain just for you, once you understand that and know him you would never want to be in a non existing state, which really does not exist.

People don't want salvation because they love their sin, they want to do what they want to do and don't want any penalty, they want their own way, well God says ok go ahead have your way, but also gives us a book that tells how that will end, it's all in the bible

Why did Jesus tell people to “go and sin no more” if sinlessness is impossible?​

ANSWER

There are two instances in the New Testament when Jesus told someone to “sin no more,” and they were each under very different circumstances. The first is when Jesus healed an invalid by the Pool of Bethesda (John 5:1–15). Afterward, Jesus found the man and told him, “See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you” (verse 14). It is clear that Jesus knew what had caused the man’s condition. We are not told the specifics of the man’s physical impairment, but the context implies that it was caused by sinful choices. Jesus warned the man that he had been given a second chance and that he should make better choices. If the man returned to his sinful behavior, he would have wasted the opportunity Jesus gave him to live whole and forgiven.

The second instance is in the account of the woman taken in the act of adultery (John 8:3–11). When the woman’s accusers brought her before Jesus, expecting Him to pronounce judgment, He told them that the one who was without sin should throw the first stone. One by one, the condemning crowd left. Then Jesus told the woman, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more” (verse 11). She had been caught. She was guilty. She did deserve stoning according to the Law of Moses (Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy 22:22). But the religious leaders who had dragged her there had no concern for holiness. They were trying to trap Jesus into saying that the Law did not matter (verse 6).

Jesus often reminded those religious leaders that He had not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). He, as God, was the Author of the Law (2 Timothy 3:16). The Pharisees focused on the letter of the Law but missed the true spirit of it, which is given in Galatians 5:14: “The whole law can be summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” When Jesus refused to condemn the woman, He was not minimizing the importance of holiness. He was offering her the same kind of forgiveness He offers every one of us (Acts 3:19).

In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).

When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change (Luke 9:23; Acts 1:8). Forgiveness is not cheap, and it does not excuse the sin that separated us from God. It cost God everything to offer us the cleansing that pronounces us righteous before Him (John 3:16; 15:13). Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

It goes without saying that the woman caught in adultery did not return to her infidelity. She had met Jesus. She would not be perfect. No one is. But she was forever changed. Her eyes had been opened to the depravity of what she was doing. Sin no longer held the appeal it once did. When we meet Jesus, sin no longer holds its fatal attraction. Grace changes things. “Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2).When we are born again (John 3:3), the power of the Holy Spirit breaks the power that sin once had over us (Romans 6:6). Once we lived only to please ourselves, but when we have been forgiven, our motivation changes. We now live to please God (Galatians 2:20).

It should be the goal of every Christian to “sin no more,” although we recognize that, while we are in the flesh, we will still stumble (1 John 1:8). God’s desire for each of us is to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16). We still sin, but sin is no longer a lifestyle choice (1 John 3:9–10). When we fail, we can come to God and ask forgiveness (1 John 1:9; 1 Peter 4:1–2). And if we are truly God’s children, He will correct us, disciplining us when we need it (Hebrews 12:6–11). His work is to conform us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29).

from Why did Jesus tell people to “go and sin no more” if sinlessness is impossible? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Hol]

It goes without saying that the woman caught in adultery did not return to her infidelity. She had met Jesus. She would not be perfect. No one is. But she was forever changed. Her eyes had been opened to the depravity of what she was doing.

I love this truth.

 

[Hol]

Why didn't God give the option for us to choose non-existence

I have personally wrestled with the wrath of God and the existence of hell. I don't think every believer does.

Also, I love God and want to give Him glory and all of my love forever, something that didn't come naturally to me until I understood His love for me.

I didn't wrestle with knowing God created us. Though I wasn't raised going to church, my native American family going back generations believe in our Creator. When I was in my 50s I finally learned that the Bible is true and it's all in there, in Jesus.

It's easier now for me to understand God's wrath and hell, but it's taken years of reading the Bible through, and daily; of praying and seeing prayers answered; and some deep emotional work by the Holy Spirit to free me from a fear of wrath and hell. I'm beginning to understand how worthy Jesus is, how good it will be to glorify our Heavenly Father forever, and how God's authority over His creation is representative of His holiness and love.

If I may challenge you, ask God about His love for you. If you haven't already read through the Bible ask Him to help you do that.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Nonexistence is called nihilism and it is a false teaching that originates in eastern religion and I believe daoism.

Imagine for a second that any inkling of pleasure and enjoyment in our life comes as a common grace blessing from God. Now imagine removing God so you "could just live your life" - seems like you would be in hell already.

Interesting discussion but this is a very dangerous mindset! Remember God's grace runs out eventually and He can/will harden your heart permanently. Beware for at that point it's too late.

Exodus 8:15 NASB95 — But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.

Exodus 8:32 NASB95 — But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.

Exodus 9:34 NASB95 — But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants.

Exodus 10:1 NASB95 — Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,

Exodus 11:10 NASB95 — Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I'm sure someone will have a better explanation than me, but I'll give this a try I hope it helps.


God created everything and everyone for His purposes, so everything and everyone belongs to Him, whether we like it or want it or not.
All of Creation is subject to God's rules, simply because He made it.
God gave us free will to choose between Him and eternal life with Him, or reject Him and spend eternity without Him in Hell.

We don't go to Hell just because of individual (personal) sins, we also go to Hell because of our sin nature. We were born this way because our sin nature is passed through the male bloodline all the way back to Adam, who was the Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather, etc. of every human being EXCEPT himself, Eve, and Jesus Christ. God created Adam, then created Eve from Adam's rib, and then Eve was deceived and ate the forbidden fruit and Adam sinned by willfully and knowingly eating the forbidden fruit. God had warned Adam directly and Eve either directly or via Adam that if they ate from the one tree, they would die. By Adam's sin, sin entered the world and every human being born after Adam and Eve was infected with the sin nature EXCEPT Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Son of God The Father, so He had no Earthly biological father, so no sin nature, and he didn't commit any individual (personal) sins, so he was innocent of both sin nature and individual (personal) sin. Because innocent of both sin nature AND individual (personal sin) Jesus could die for everyone else's sin and pay the whole price for all of the sins that everyone has ever committed, is committing, and will ever commit.

As you noted, "I have absolutely no problem with God wanting to keep sin out of His Kingdom. If I were Him and I had specific standards of what I want in my household and what I don't want, I would keep things that I didn't want in it out as well. It's His Kingdom, no problem."

God wouldn't want anything in His house that was contrary to His rules. Our sin nature makes us dirty/unholy before we even commit one sin, and God can't abide dirty/unholy in His house because He is perfectly holy/clean. God's rule is either a person accepts the free gift, which He provided in His Son Jesus Christ, and becomes clean (holy) because Jesus' righteousness is imputed (applied) to him or her and goes to God's house and lives forever, OR a person rejects the free gift, remains dirty (unholy) and dies forever in the place prepared for dirty (unholy) beings. After death, a Christian believer/saved person goes to Heaven to be with God and will be judged at the Bema seat of Jesus, which only dispenses rewards and doesn't have anything to do with forgiveness, Salvation, or eternal life, because that was a free gift from Jesus that the person accepted that makes him or her eligible for the Bema Seat instead of The Great White Throne Judgement. An unsaved person goes to the Great White Throne Judgement and is judged on his or her sins because he or she didn't accept Jesus' payment for his or her sins, and has to now pay for them him or herself and goes to Hell to do that.

The absolute best part is we don't have to do anything except believe that Jesus Christ is Lord (God) and He died for our sins. We not only don't have to do anything, we can't do anything do help earn our Salvation. Jesus paid the whole penalty for us, so we don't owe anything, and anything we try to do (pay) for our Salvation will be refused/ignored because it is both unnecessary and robs Jesus of some of the glory that belongs to Him alone for what He did for us.


Here are some Bible verses that may be helpful. I'm citing the King James version of the Bible, which uses old English. The New King James Version (NKJV) and English Standard Version (ESV) use more modern language. Bible Gateway has a selection of versions, and you can look up the specific verses and passages in any of the versions, or simply read chapter by chapter BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:1, KJV

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 17:24-35, KJV

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:4, KJV

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:11-15, KJV

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:8-12, KJV

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Proverbs 9:27, KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-15, KJV

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18, KJV

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Luke 1:26-50, KJV

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:1-9, KJV

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:21-28, KJV

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2, KJV

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9, KJV


Most merciful God, we confess that we are by nature sinful and unclean. We have sinned against You in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We justly deserve Your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of Your Son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we may delight in Your will and walk in Your ways to the glory of Your holy name. Amen.


HOW TO BE SAVED

Thread 'How To Be Born Again'

Jun 30, 2023

Do you want to go to Heaven? Jesus said unless a person is born again, they cannot enter the Kingdom of God. By born again, He means having a spiritual birth. You see, from your parents you received a physical birth—which is your earthly life. But you now need to receive a spiritual birth to gain eternal life in Heaven. And that comes only from God. It's called being born again. How do you get it? Fortunately it is very, very simple. Jesus said all that is necessary to be born again is to believe in Him.

What does that mean? Well, it’s as simple as A-B-C.

Admit you have...

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