I'm stunned, at a loss for words, at what has happened at my church. I need some advice.

[Ghoti Ichthus]

 

[mattfivefour]

Praying you have the words to speak and your pastor is receptive and concerned.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

Wow, well, it's been an eventful day. Returning from the church, I was hit/sideswiped by a guy driving a stolen car. The police were in pursuit and he was eventually caught. I made it home, car body damage, my body ok. So, there's that. As for the meeting, it went as well as could be expected. Pastor was aware of non believers in the pantry ministry as were the rest of the pantry staff and the youth director had been taking the missionaries to lunch and witnessing to them so they are being shown the truth at least. He admitted that it was a difficult area because you want unbelievers in your midst for sharing with them but then not so much as to give them or others the impression that you approve of their beliefs. I shared the verse about "a little leaven affected the whole loaf" and I said that this, to me, is a "little leaven." In the end, he said he understood my concern and would have a meeting with the pantry director and go over the wisdom of having non believers as volunteers and how that looks to outsiders. I also suggested some kind of training video, rather than a class, but a video that all volunteers would have to watch prior to being used for any task. A reminder that volunteering is not just doing menial chores but we are representatives of our particular church and God himself. So, he was open, he'll address the situation with the deacon who runs it, consider a training video and we'll see. Also, the car thief after hitting me and another car, crashed into someone's front yard and then ran on foot. He was apprehended.

 

[mattfivefour]

I also suggested some kind of training video, rather than a class, but a video that all volunteers would have to watch prior to being used for any task.

Excellent idea, brother!

 

[Andiamo]

Wow, I’m sorry to hear that your car got damaged but so glad you are OK.
I was wondering if your pastor was using that as a witnessing opportunity, even though allowing them to serve still doesn’t seem right.
What a stressful day for you. I will pray that you are able to get the damage fixed easily and that it doesn’t cost too much. And that the car thief is apprehended by the Lord.

 

[mattfivefour]

And that the car thief is apprehended by the Lord.

The car thief was apprehended, according to what Ron said in his final sentence.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

God's ministers in government service!
(vocation as calling and ministry)

 

[Matthew6:33]

Glad you are OK. I prayed for your meeting. Hopefully there will be a good follow-through. I agree with the Bible verse that you brought up. A little leaven goes a long way (good for baking, bad for ministry lol).

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Anything new re the pantry, volunteers, etc.?

 

[Everlasting Life]

ing for the Lord's leading for this church and for your protection and car being successfully repaired.

I've found when the Lord uses us for His purposes our enemy tries to make a dent in our world. It can be quite interesting. Praise God you are ok.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

Anything new re the pantry, volunteers, etc.?

The meeting with the pastor went well. He agreed that the visitors should not have been allowed to speak at the luncheon. He later met with the organizer who also agreed and said that he had just dropped the ball on that. As for them working at the pantry, they are still there although not displaying any emblems, etc. and they do not interact with the patrons. There is an issue, well, question, about how to handle that. Since the pantry is in association with some other groups in the purchasing of food there are some government regulations about who can and cannot participate. The pantry is on church property but in order to participate in the food acquisition, they must abide by the regulations. Basically, can we pick and choose who we want to work in the pantry? So, that's ongoing. Yeah, get the government involved if you want to make things more difficult and complicated for everyone.

 

[Hol]

Since the pantry is in association with some other groups in the purchasing of food there are some government regulations about who can and cannot participate. The pantry is on church property but in order to participate in the food acquisition, they must abide by the regulations.

These are issues churches aren't equipped to handle. What if my church has a job opening and a trans antifa person applies?

Lord help us all

 

[Andiamo]

The meeting with the pastor went well. He agreed that the visitors should not have been allowed to speak at the luncheon. He later met with the organizer who also agreed and said that he had just dropped the ball on that. As for them working at the pantry, they are still there although not displaying any emblems, etc. and they do not interact with the patrons. There is an issue, well, question, about how to handle that. Since the pantry is in association with some other groups in the purchasing of food there are some government regulations about who can and cannot participate. The pantry is on church property but in order to participate in the food acquisition, they must abide by the regulations. Basically, can we pick and choose who we want to work in the pantry? So, that's ongoing. Yeah, get the government involved if you want to make things more difficult and complicated for everyone.

Ah, that explains it. That is complicated.
About 10 years ago, my husband and I visited a Salvation Army church service. It was wonderful - so reverent. I love the whole idea of the Salvation Army. We went twice and the second time, the pastor spoke about the Christian’s responsibility to care for the earth including mentions of climate change, complete with a slide show. We realized they had been sold out and to what extent that truly meant there. I still get sad when I think about it. Will say a prayer right now that the government will only go as far as your pantry and no further.
That money is so tempting when your heart is to help the community.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

These are issues churches aren't equipped to handle. What if my church has a job opening and a trans antifa person applies?

Lord help us all

Jobs posted from my denomination and the affiliated churches and organizations include a disclaimer that as a religious organization they can give preference to a member of the denomination. Being a member of a church in the denomination in good standing is an absolute requirement for some jobs (Pastors, teachers, writers/editors, etc.).

By law (in the United States), religious organizations can give preference in hiring to members of their own denomination, require signing a statement of faith, require a letter(s) of reference from home church Pastor, require/prohibit specific conduct (including away from work), etc. There may be specific places the notice has to be posted/included, and maybe specific wording.

 

[Ronnie]

I am in perfect agreement to those agreeing that they should not be there and the first one talking to them should be the pastor.

I would be questioning attending that church, where is discernment in that body?

 

[janeelaine]

how are things going since?? glad it went well so far...

 

[RonJohnSilver]

I'm told that two of the four have moved on, their assignments putting them somewhere else. One of our member workers said they got a letter from one of those who left in which the young man thanked them for the work, etc. and then said that they would be praying to John the Baptist for them. Just an example, my friend said, of the lostness of these folk. As far as I know, the other two are still there although they are assigned work which doesn't allow them to work one on one with the community that comes for help.

 

[Matthew6:33]

praying to John the Baptist

What do you expect from a group that thinks Jesus and Satan were brothers???

 

[Texas Bluebonnet]

A short bit of background. My wife and I began attending a Baptist church last year. I teach as a sub and we both work in the food pantry fellowship, that is, several of us lead a short Bible class while the bulk of the pantry workers are preparing the food for distribution. We do that so people won't have to sit in their cars for 2 hours until the start time. And overall, the church has been solid as far as teaching. Today, though, was hard. There was a lunch for all the pantry workers, those outside distributing and those inside teaching (us). At the luncheon, we noticed 4 young people at one of the tables, 2 men and 2 women, the men in long pants and white shirts wearing tags that said "Elder xxx" and their companions, "Sister xxx" ... clearly Mormon. Turns out that they are part of the pantry work team, they work outside in the preparation of the food packages. But it shocked me. These are not visitors or guests of members. They are active Mormons, the two men are, in fact, doing part of their 2 year missionary work. And they're doing it at a Baptist church!! Apparently, I'm told, someone in the past allowed the Mormons to participate, for what I reason I don't know. The pantry has been in operation for about 25 years and we're relative newcomers. Now, they are not teaching, they are not passing out literature or witnessing etc. but they are under the banner, the authority of a Baptist church and that alone it seems to me gives them some degree of legitimacy to the outside world. My thought, and my wife's, is that, if they are in our church, we should consider them as "lost" and not co-laborers. And I'm speechless that, as far as I know, no one else thought that. Anyway, my plan is to write a letter, email, to the pastor, the worship leader (who was in attendance) and the pantry deacon (who led the affair) and express my thoughts to them. However, at this time, I'm am still too mad to write in a respectful way so I'll wait a day or so. Also, though, I would like to know if you all think I am making too big a deal about this. (Obviously I don't think so, but ...), and lastly, what if the church hierarchy doesn't take the same position I have? Is this a "separation level event", that is, would you leave the church because of this? Truthfully, if I had to decide right now, I might. And we both really, really like the church. The verse that keeps coming to mind is the one that says "...do you not know, a little leaven leavens the whole loaf?" So, what do you think? Am I making too much of it and would you leave if it came to that? Thanks, RJS

You are right to feel like you do. And yes this is a serious matter. Inclusivism in ministry when you are joining hands with those who believe a false Gospel is wrong.6.14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6.15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 6.16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. CorinthiansCorinthians