Charlie Kirk and Ecumenicalism

[Cheeky200386]

Spencer Smith just started a 10 part series sharing who Charlie Kirk was and concerns he has from a Biblical Perspective. I have watched his first two and it is excellent.

Deception is strong these days and sadly Turning Point USA is also being used by Satan to bring us hand in hand with Catholicism and all false religions.

God is definitely using his death and his videos to spread the Gospel. Charlie stood for a lot we agree with, sadly his Theology did lack in certain areas, which I know a lot of us already knew this.

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[Margery]

I think that is a good point.

We can agree with much from Charlie Kirk. Sharing the gospel, freedom of speech, open debates with unbelievers.

We don't have to agree with the NAR stuff that I hear about in connection to him. Or confusing patriotism with faith in Christ. We can be Christians and not be Americans for example, with differing points of view on multiple subjects.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Spencer Smith just put out the 3rd episode if anyone is interested. He is a Fundamental Baptist and is solid in his Theology from what I’ve seen these past several years.

 

[Greg]

This isn't a comment about Spencer Smith because I'm not familiar with his work. However, the topic hits on something that's been bothering me lately.

I have seen some getting really down on Charlie for some of his apparent beliefs, having LDS employees in his organization, etc. To me, turning point is more of a political/cultural organization than anything -- I don't think it's reasonable to have a litmus test for who can work there other than holding to the organization's primary values.

I think it's good to have our eyes open about bad theology creeping in and appreciate having that called out, but I think it's a fine line where some run the risk of always attacking other believers who may be mistaken or less than perfect in some areas. I just keep thinking that the enemy is the one always accusing us, and that should not be the model for discretion ministries who are always on the attack as their primary calling.

I don't know what the right balance is, but when you have people who knew Charlie well like Jack Hibbs and Amir eulogizing him, I give that a lot of weight as well as the fruit God is producing from what happened.

 

[mattfivefour]

I think it's good to have our eyes open about bad theology creeping in and appreciate having that called out, but I think it's a fine line where some run the risk of always attacking other believers who may be mistaken or less than perfect in some areas. I just keep thinking that the enemy is the one always accusing us, and that should not be the model for discretion ministries who are always on the attack as their primary calling.

THIS!

As a pastor I stand in the front lines against errant doctrine; but too often I see well-intentioned blood-bought believers, zealous of protecting the faith once delivered, attacking other blood-bought believers over points of doctrine that have nothing to do with the doctrine of salvation or the person of Christ. Satan must rejoice. As I've written elsewhere today., we need to keep Galatians 6:1 and James 3:17-18 always in mind.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Nowadays NAR has crept into everything, it's to be expected in my view. It's a sign of the times and face it, Ecumenicalism is neccessary to bring the false prophet and one world mystery religion.

Not saying it's good or not to call it out but just that it is prophetically significant and shows the Bible is true.

The LDS, JWs, RCC and many other apostate groups that have not put their faith in the biblical Jesus are going to be left behind to battle it out with eachother after the rapture to be the first to 'bring the kingdom' about.

 

[Cheeky200386]

This isn't a comment about Spencer Smith because I'm not familiar with his work. However, the topic hits on something that's been bothering me lately.

I have seen some getting really down on Charlie for some of his apparent beliefs, having LDS employees in his organization, etc. To me, turning point is more of a political/cultural organization than anything -- I don't think it's reasonable to have a litmus test for who can work there other than holding to the organization's primary values.

I think it's good to have our eyes open about bad theology creeping in and appreciate having that called out, but I think it's a fine line where some run the risk of always attacking other believers who may be mistaken or less than perfect in some areas. I just keep thinking that the enemy is the one always accusing us, and that should not be the model for discretion ministries who are always on the attack as their primary calling.

I don't know what the right balance is, but when you have people who knew Charlie well like Jack Hibbs and Amir eulogizing him, I give that a lot of weight as well as the fruit God is producing from what happened.

I highly recommend you watch the first video as you'll see Spencer Smith is extremely gracious towards Charlie Kirk. Not at all what you are thinking. He makes a great case of where Turning Point may end up given how it started despite Charlie's Zeal for Christ.

 

[Cheeky200386]

THIS!

As a pastor I stand in the front lines against errant doctrine; but too often I see well-intentioned blood-bought believers, zealous of protecting the faith once delivered, attacking other blood-bought believers over points of doctrine that have nothing to do with the doctrine of salvation or the person of Christ. Sarah must rejoice. As I've written elsewhere today., we need to keep Galatians 6:1 and James 3:17-18 always in mind.

I definitely encourage you to check out Spencer's Video as he is not what you are describing. He is extremely level headed and I highly respect his videos where he exposes subtle deceptions while also being gracious.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Nowadays NAR has crept into everything, it's to be expected in my view. It's a sign of the times and face it, Ecumenicalism is neccessary to bring the false prophet and one world mystery religion.

Not saying it's good or not to call it out but just that it is prophetically significant and shows the Bible is true.

The LDS, JWs, RCC and many other apostate groups that have not put their faith in the biblical Jesus are going to be left behind to battle it out with eachother after the rapture to be the first to 'bring the kingdom' about.

That's what Spencer is focusing on. That although the intentions for Turning Point USA were good, the ultimate end of Ecumencalism is always back to Rome (Catholicism) and that we need to be careful when we start to unite with other groups that claim to be Christian but are not. I can not recommend his videos enough.

 

[Greg]

I highly recommend you watch the first video as you'll see Spencer Smith is extremely gracious towards Charlie Kirk. Not at all what you are thinking. He makes a great case of where Turning Point may end up given how it started despite Charlie's Zeal for Christ.

Thanks Cheeky. I wasn't directing at him or you and am appreciative of you posting the information.

My frustration comes from others I won't name here that (in my opinion) go way too far in criticizing others. Makes me think of logs and specks, honestly. The general topic hits something that's been bothering me a lot lately. Maybe part of that is work and personal related, too.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Thanks Cheeky. I wasn't directing at him or you and am appreciative of you posting the information.

My frustration comes from others I won't name here that (in my opinion) go way too far in criticizing others. Makes me think of logs and specks, honestly. The general topic hits something that's been bothering me a lot lately. Maybe part of that is work and personal related, too.

I agree with your frustrations. I would be concerned if Spencer Smith started attacking Charlie, he thankfully does none of that. He does point out how he was showing signs of compromise but died with a solid understanding of the Gospel, nonetheless. As a result, his organization could easily go off the rails as it continues forward.

 

[1LoverofGod]

This brother in Christ Dustin (Busy for The Lord) gives a good commentary based on Spencer's video in the OP.


An Earthly or Eternal Mission for TPUSA and Erika Kirk

We know that Charlie started a political movement that blurred the doctrine distinctives of many churches and religions. But what will be the future of TPA? Will Erica Kirk choose to promote ecumenicalism or stay true to the scriptures?

15 minute video....

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[Hol]

I’m not watching the videos unless I can free up the time. Here is where I land:

I don't know what the right balance is, but when you have people who knew Charlie well like Jack Hibbs and Amir eulogizing him, I give that a lot of weight as well as the fruit God is producing from what happened.

&

As a pastor I stand in the front lines against errant doctrine; but too often I see well-intentioned blood-bought believers, zealous of protecting the faith once delivered, attacking other blood-bought believers over points of doctrine that have nothing to do with the doctrine of salvation or the person of Christ.

Regarding the importance of acknowledging how we must avoid ecumenism, may I suggest that possibly both Charlie and Erika Kirk knew that God built TPUSA and only He can bring it to a good future. That would include winning over the LDS, RC, etc.

 

[Set Free]

It happens that well-known Christians who are saved will have been given and end up promoting a flawed salvation message. I am not sure what all Charlie believed in and was saved. I know he trusted Christ as his Savior and that is enough. But sometimes we get the baggage of prominent preachers like Charlie's pastor. Having listened the Charlies pastor he gives some of these "salvation cliches", like the "ABC's", and "asking Jesus into your heart", which are not supported by Biblical doctrine. What happens sometimes that people will latch onto one of these instead of what really counts: that we are saved when we simply trust in Christ finished work on the cross to save us. The much-overrated Billy Graham came across with an ambiguous message of "you must start living the Christian life" or "count the cost, and take up your cross.." BG, as I remember would say, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...but stop there and not go to the next verse that gives the good news which says, "Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus...." (Rom 3:23-25). I would have believed and been saved as a teenager back then if BG had taught clearly salvation as a free gift from God simply received by faith in Christ alone.
Charlie may have fallen into the ecumenical trap as BG fell into welcoming evangelicals and Catholics together as one church. The good news is that I think "turning point" can still b be used to bring people to a saving relationship with Christ. The Holy Spirit can still use turning point to lead people to Christ.
"

 

[Set Free]

I watched the Spencer video, and what it tells me is that Charlie was willing to take people where they were in their beliefs, right or wrong, and try to bring them together with the message of the gospel. You have to do this with anyone whether they are RCC, JW, SDA, Jewish or whatever, and give them the good news of salvation and at the same time, not condemn them or spend your time throwing darts at their beliefs they have accepted all their lives. You need to present them with a better way; the simple message of the gospel that saves them and let the Holy Spirit work in them.

 

[Baby Yoda]

ut I think it's a fine line where some run the risk of always attacking other believers who may be mistaken or less than perfect in some areas. I just keep thinking that the enemy is the one always accusing us,

Agree. None of us is perfect so what we share with others is not going to be perfect.

 

[Cheeky200386]

Agree. None of us is perfect so what we share with others is not going to be perfect.

We also need to warn the brethren of deception coming from those in positions of influence and ministry or is that also accusing the brethren?

 

[mattfivefour]

We also need to warn the brethren of deception coming from those in positions of influence and ministry or is that also accusing the brethren?

I think if we focus on attacking the erroneous doctrine rather the brother, we would do well. If we explain why the doctrine is erroneous and provide the correct doctrine then we are focusing on the problem. Now, this advice is when dealing with those whose doctrines regarding Christ and salvation are correct. When dealing with false prophets and false teachers --those who proclaim another gospel; those who deny Christ's divinity, His humanity, and the completeness and perfection of His substitutionary sacrifice-- when dealing with them, we need to expose them and warn others against them. These are the REAL danger to the flock, the real wolves who come to devour.