Cheeky200386
Well-known
Never heard of it, lolApparently you have never watched officer Lucy Chen on the TV show “The Rookie”……
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Army Black Hawk Collides with Passenger Jet Over Potomac River Near DC
- Thread starter Spartan Sprinter
- Start date
TCC
Well-known
Army Blackhawk pilot in DC crash failed to heed flight instructor’s command 15 seconds before deadly collision: report
The Army Blackhawk pilot involved in the Washington, DC, plane crash failed to heed her flight instructor’s warning just 15 seconds before the deadly crash that killed 67 people, according to a new report.
Moments before the deadly Jan. 29 crash near Reagan International Airport, Capt. Rebecca Lobach missed an order from co-pilot Andrew Eaves, who was overseeing her training mission, to change course and avoid the descending American Airlines jet, the New York Times reported.
Along with the error, officials found that the pilots “stepped on” some of the air traffic controller’s instructions, meaning they accidentally cut him off when pressing the button to talk over the radio and likely missed important information.
Ghoti Ichthus
Genesis 18:32, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Acts 5:29
You are entitled to your opinion.
I'm also a retired Soldier, and I didn't drive a desk.
My oath to defend the country and the Constitution has no expiration date, and if necessary, I am still prepared to give my life.
Shinobi
Well-known
I am not trying to start an argument here. I am only pointing out some simple facts. During WWII large numbers of Bombers made their way to England from the US being flown by women because men were busy fighting the war. A significant number of the earliest aviators were also woman some who built their own aircraft. If you ever get a chance to see it there is an image of a woman on the top wing of a biplane replacing a wheel in flight of other biplane that had fallen off during take off and that plane landed safely.
My point is this. Gender has nothing to do with skills and often abilities. I worked with a lady who on rifle qualification day, needed to qualify for an up coming promotion. She just grabbed a rifle, was allow three shots to to zero in and then qualified near perfect score. That was some very fine shooting.
Then there were the night witches from Russia in WWII. They would fly at night with no instruments and find German emplacements and drop mortars and grenades and were extremely successful in their attacks. Germans hated the night witches because they were very good at what they did.
So we are talking about skills here and as such gender means nothing. In fact the most recent record set for Top Fuel drag racing was done by a woman who did not only set the highest ever speed record at 341.59 mph and she is considered to be a very top notch mechanic as well. Even in my own family my Mom was a Rosie the Riveter for 2 years before she joined the Army at the end of WWII. Lastly there is the female AF A-10 pilot who got severely shot up in the Gulf war and still managed to fly her very badly damaged plane back to her base. These are skill sets that either a man or woman can have. Gender really does not come into play here. Any woman trained well enough can match men when it comes to skills. Physical strength such as we see it the current attempt my men to compete in women's sport is a different situation all together.
What I would say is I care not who flies any plane I ride on male or female but how much experience do they have. In the above article it claims the pilot likely responsible only had 45 hours and that is a drop in the bucket to what I would consider experience. Only 45 hours limits the number of conditions and locations a person has flow into and out of. Now whether her politics plays into this or not is between her and God now but if I had to suspect anything about her it would be her politics over her gender. Since we can in no way ever know though, it is still an unfortunate accident as long as there was no intent to crash as happened. Because quite frankly many crashes of military accidents have come at the hands of men more than of women and many of them had way more experience than just 45 hours.
As I said I get it. It is a mind set you have and I am not trying to change it. I am only pointing out that gender really does not play into this at all as for ability to fly but skills and experience is the determining factor.
Cheeky200386
Well-known
No worries. I’m more shocked at the responses than anything. Women, as skilled as they may be, increase the liability and risk while being in certain positions of the military and within first responders. My position may be the minority on this forum, and I’m ok with that. Research also demonstrates the differences in ability when it comes to spatial perception, the impact of performance pressure on gender differences (research I did way back in the day, yes I’m older than I look lol), and that’s not even mentioning the obvious muscle and strength difference.
The reality is there are many who hold to this position but because of the influence of feminism in our culture know they must be silent.
My husband was just as surprised by the responses I got on here and confirmed that officers in the units he’s worked over the years (in MA, in FL and now in NH while in corrections, the city police, and the Air Force and now the VA) share in the sentiment but can’t really do or say much about it. Interestingly enough, he shared that the women that are hired in these units eventually make their way inside and off the streets doing administrative tasks per their own requests.
Of course there are always exceptions, like probably Gnochti on here, but I’m talking about the norm. Knowing that standards have also been lowered for DEI purposes does not help either.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Ghoti Ichthus
Genesis 18:32, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Acts 5:29
I hate when women in LE try to get off the street, and hate it even more when TPTB allow or even encourage it
Those positions should be primarily earned, and secondarily assigned to disabled/older/recovering from injuries/illness officers, who aren't as capable as they once were, but still have a lot to offer and are valuable to the department. Having an inexperienced officer of either gender as a property officer is a surefire way to end up with lawsuits and lost cases. Having a young officer as an aide, etc. in the Command offices can create a huge image problem and keep the young officer from actually learning the real-world parts of his or her job. If and when that officer ends up back on the street, he or she may actually be in charge and have no clue, thus creating huge safety and service issues for officers and the community. If not in charge, he or she might have been privy to something about the officer(s) in charge or Command Staff that he or she should not know as a subordinate. That subordinate officer might also not be trusted by other officers. It goes without saying that inexperienced officers have no business serving as trainers, internal affairs, etc. The only exception I can think of off-hand would be an inexperienced officer, who has special expertise in something, who could be pulled off the street to teach a specific class and then returned to the street. An example might be a former military drone operator or technician teaching a drone class.I've always hated that there are dual standards for males and females for PT in the military. I figured the standards were there to make sure we could do our jobs, so I maxed on the male standards, especially since in non-traditional job/positions, and because I didn't want to be thought of as having a "cheap" max. Doing that while in a leadership role "encouraged" my Soldiers to do likewise without my having to say anything
I figured I had an advantage on the sit-ups due to lower center of gravity, the men had an advantage on the run because of larger cardiovascular, and the push-ups evened out because every Soldier pushed his or her own weight.Lowered and/or dual standards are terrible for everyone
Especially when one's score translates into promotion points and professional ratings.
Shinobi
Well-known
I wouldn't argue about often times women obtain positions because of their gender. It is not missed out that often times women rise to position in the military more because of their gender than because of their skills. I have seen many like that. I am just saying that in the bigger scheme of things women are often as capable as any man for a lot of positions. Flying is one of those positions. Many women can fly as well and better than a lot of men. There is the AF pilot flying A-10 that got severely shot up and rather than bail out where she might be captured in Iraq she flew back to her base and landed safely. No easy feat to do in a badly shot up plane.
I guess I was raised and worked around a lot of very capable women in my life as well as the many I would not want in many positions for any reason. Other than physical ability such as strength I don't see that much difference in a lot of women for various positions that have been traditionally male filled. It started with a Mom who was a Rosie the Riveter and later a Sgt. in the Army. Funny thing was when she got married she could not cook. Had never fixed a single meal but could bake up a storm. Good thing for us kids Dad started cooking at age 9 and was a fantastic cook. Granted Mom could not help with the building of her green house but she could grow anything she wanted as long as it was tropical in nature as we lived on the Gulf coast. She taught herself how to drive in a standard long before automatics came out. She was never much for liking driving but she could drive very well and never had an accident. Can't say the same for my Dad and one of my sisters as well as myself. What I am saying is out side of heavy physical strength requirements women are often as capable as any man. I have know women who can rebuild an engine on a car. In fact my Moms baby sister rebuilt the engine on her VW bug by herself. I know guys now don't even know where to put the oil or what the battery even looks like. That being said, I get your position as a generality and many would agree. But I doubt many have paid attention to the many women out there that are as capable as men in things like mechanics, even flying, to running a fishing boat in the Alaska fishing grounds. So while you have your view, I have mine as well and yeah we can agree to disagree. I would only say I bet even you if you chose could find things usually designated manly jobs that you could do if you really wanted to. I mean after all I crochet, knit, and sew which are generally thought of as womanly jobs. Yet the origins of such things actually start with men making and mending fishing nets. So anything is possible.
If anything, I would look into the mind set background of the lady pilot in this crash and see where her political leanings were, if any problems from childhood may have played into her bad choice more than her physical ability to fly.
Cheeky200386
Well-known
That’s where we get into the understanding that women are more emotional than men and as a result are often more deceived than men.
As I said before, we will probably have to agree to disagree. Anecdotes just don’t change what the Bible says about men and women and what research shows.
God bless you!
This leaves my theory upthread as still a possibility (murder/suicide). 15 seconds is a long time not to react to the instructor's order. We'll never know intentions as those things don't end up on flight recorders.
If a person becomes overwhelmed in a situation their ability to perform can be greatly diminished. I saw that in some aircrewmembers when we were in danger. Under difficult circumstances some people will excell while others retract into their shell.
The instructor was certainly wide awake and had good situational awareness.
Ghoti Ichthus
Genesis 18:32, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Acts 5:29
Could the instructor have taken control of the aircraft, or wasn't that capability available, or not enough time?
NOT saying the instructor was at fault.
Even disregarding the specific "error" of the pilot, failing to heed/deliberately disregarding the instruction of the instructor, especially when it's related to safety, is a HUGE red flag.
NOT saying the instructor was at fault.
Even disregarding the specific "error" of the pilot, failing to heed/deliberately disregarding the instruction of the instructor, especially when it's related to safety, is a HUGE red flag.
Andiamo
Hanging on to the Throne
Our last women’s meeting at church was all about gossip which bothered me a little that it seems to be assumed that we are the gossiping ones. Although mentions in the letters does point to problems they had in this area, many proverbs regarding our speech as well as Philippians 4:8 is genderless. I think that we see the differences between men and women laid out in scripture but then we tend to layer typecasting or our own opinions over that.
My husband is a man of many words, he is as emotional as they come. He isn’t very assertive, doesn’t do well in intense situations. I say this with love and highest respect as my husband is a very honorable and extremely gifted man, but he is definitely not suited for law enforcement - yes - he would admit there are women who would be more capable than him in this role.
And scripture backs this up.
Remember Jael, who killed that guy with a tent stake.
Many Jaels exist today. And Deborah’s. And Rahabs.
Those scientific studies have nothing to do with how God will use a person, believer or not.
My husband is a man of many words, he is as emotional as they come. He isn’t very assertive, doesn’t do well in intense situations. I say this with love and highest respect as my husband is a very honorable and extremely gifted man, but he is definitely not suited for law enforcement - yes - he would admit there are women who would be more capable than him in this role.
And scripture backs this up.
Remember Jael, who killed that guy with a tent stake.
Many Jaels exist today. And Deborah’s. And Rahabs.
Those scientific studies have nothing to do with how God will use a person, believer or not.
There was more than enough time for the instructor to shout out if he thought there was a deliberate attempt by the pilot to hit the aircraft, which would’ve been on the recorder.
I think the overwhelming evidence is an accident caused by a relatively inexperienced pilot flying in a heavy trafficked area coupled with understaffed crew in the tower.
The pilot being instructed had plenty of experience, but apparently had been out of the saddle for a while, so it wouldn't be from inexperience but might be from a loss of skills that needed refreshing. The instructor pilot would normally be in one of the pilot positions... and if he/she was then the instructor should have been able to take evasive maneuvers when their student didn't respond to the command to turn left. So one question I have is, was the instructor pilot in one of the pilot seats or was he in a spot where he/she couldn't take control? Given what little I've read about the tragedy, I can't agree that there is overwhelming evidence that it was accidental. Of course, it's possible that with my cloistered life style I may not have seen all the information made public.
TCC
Well-known
I think for a while now though they wanted us to become dumber and dumber until we begged to be fed with gracious meaty bugs
TCC
Well-known
Good points. It just seems odd that this copter was in that danger zone area. Is that common though?
True. But that's the way it is set up there. Unbelievable.
