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What is your opinion on this article? "That Generation will not Pass Away"

Amethyst

† He hath shed his own blood for my soul

That Generation Shall Not Pass Away​

Tim Moore

Hebrews 1 says, “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds…” (NKJV). So, here we are seeing that Jesus never contradicted a single verse from the prophets. In fact, He continued in the same mantle.

Toward the end of His ministry, Jesus was on the Mount of Olives surrounded by His disciples. None of His disciples were “Christian” at that point. They were Jewish.

So, Jesus taught his Jewish disciples while He was in Jerusalem. And to make it very clear, in the history of planet Earth, Jerusalem was never a capital of any other nation but Israel. So, here you have the Jewish Messiah speaking to His Jewish disciples in the Jewish capital of the Jewish people.

We have to understand that the questions He was asked by his disciples—to which He gave a great, lengthy, and detailed answer—were authentic Jewish issues related to the Jewish Temple, the Messiah, and the last days.

THE Rest:

https://christinprophecyblog.org/2023/12/that-generation-shall-not-pass-away/

---------

Thoughts?​
 
I figure the term generation can be looked at in a lot of different ways. Therefore, I don't put the potential timing of future events within a certain time frame based on "That Generation will not Pass Away". If I had direct knowledge of the original text/language I might think differently.

Before we talk about the fig tree, let’s talk about the word “generation.” Scholars, theologians, teachers, and pastors have pondered and debated about the timeframe of a generation. Some say it’s 20 years, some 30 years, some 40 years, others say longer.
The quote is from the article. I've also heard a generation described as possibly 70 or 120 years. I think it's possible that when saying "generation" He could have been speaking of this age of mankind.
 
From Arnold Fruchtenbaum

And he spoke to them a parable: Behold the fig tree, and all the trees: when they now shoot forth, ye see it and know of your own selves that the summer is now nigh. Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
~ Luke 21:29-33 ~​
This section has often been misused by those who have attempted to date the Rapture or the Second Coming of the Messiah. The fig tree is often taken to mean the re-establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. Then, within a generation, that is forty years from 1948, the Second Coming must occur. This would place the Second Coming in 1988. Because the Rapture precedes the Second Coming by at least seven years, it would place the Rapture by 1981. This is simply date-setting – something the Scriptures clearly forbid. Nevertheless, date-setters continue to revise their 1981 “prophecy” year after year. Since 1988 has now come and gone, the new focus is to start the forty years with the Six-Day War in 1967. So now, some are predicting the return of the Lord around 2006-2007.

There are two errors in this type of reasoning and its exposition. First, the Bible nowhere limits the period of a generation to simply forty years. The one place where the term “generation” is given a specific length of time, it is reckoned to be one hundred years (Gen. 15:13-16). Actually, the term “generation” can mean “twenty,” ”forty,” “seventy,” “eighty,” and “one hundred” years. Sometimes it simply means “contemporaries,” much as we use the term today. That is the way it is used here. A second mistake made in this reasoning is assuming that the fig tree is a symbol of Israel and that this passage is speaking of the re-establishment of the Jewish State in 1948. This has not been mentioned anywhere in the entire Olivet Discourse. The re- establishment of Israel has merely been assumed and presupposed in the passage, but it has never been dealt with specifically. Furthermore, the usual scriptural symbol for Israel is the vine.

However, the real point of this passage is that the fig tree is being used literally as an illustration, not as a symbol for Israel. This is clearly seen from verse 29 of the Luke passage, which reads Behold the fig tree, and all the trees. If the fig tree represents Israel, what, then, do all the other trees represent? If they refer to other nations, and since a number of nations have risen – and keep rising – since 1948, then when would the forty-year countdown really begin? Neither the fig tree nor the other trees are used symbolically to refer to any nation or nations; rather, they are being used literally as an illustration.

The point of the illustration is this: When the fig tree, and all the other trees begin to blossom, it is a sure sign that summer is on its way, because blossoming occurs in the spring. Then, in application of the illustration, Jesus said, Even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors. Just as a blossoming fig tree means that summer is on its way, in the same way, when these events that Yeshua spoke about occur, then they can know that His return is near.
 
Andy, I am assuming since you only quoted Frucht, that is also your opinion as well? You didn't say.


If you all think this is date setting, does that mean you also conclude that Tim Moore is leading people down a dangerous road? I know Lamb&Lion ministries teach this in general -- and they go around to many churches with End TImes presentations.
 

That Generation Shall Not Pass Away​

Tim Moore

Hebrews 1 says, “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds…” (NKJV). So, here we are seeing that Jesus never contradicted a single verse from the prophets. In fact, He continued in the same mantle.

Toward the end of His ministry, Jesus was on the Mount of Olives surrounded by His disciples. None of His disciples were “Christian” at that point. They were Jewish.

So, Jesus taught his Jewish disciples while He was in Jerusalem. And to make it very clear, in the history of planet Earth, Jerusalem was never a capital of any other nation but Israel. So, here you have the Jewish Messiah speaking to His Jewish disciples in the Jewish capital of the Jewish people.

We have to understand that the questions He was asked by his disciples—to which He gave a great, lengthy, and detailed answer—were authentic Jewish issues related to the Jewish Temple, the Messiah, and the last days.

THE Rest:

https://christinprophecyblog.org/2023/12/that-generation-shall-not-pass-away/

---------

Thoughts?​
I like Tim and Amir's article and their take on the Fig Tree Generation. I think Arnold Fruchtenbaum makes great points in his book but here he says it's an illustration not as a symbol for Israel.
However, the real point of this passage is that the fig tree is being used literally as an illustration, not as a symbol for Israel. This is clearly seen from verse 29 of the Luke passage, which reads Behold the fig tree, and all the trees. If the fig tree represents Israel, what, then, do all the other trees represent? If they refer to other nations, and since a number of nations have risen – and keep rising – since 1948, then when would the forty-year countdown really begin? Neither the fig tree nor the other trees are used symbolically to refer to any nation or nations; rather, they are being used literally as an illustration.
That passage in Luke doesn't exclude Israel's symbol as the fig, it merely adds in and all the trees. So it's not merely a literal use of an illustration. Nor do I see that all the nations have to be represented, just the core surrounding Israel which were all part of the Ottoman Empire and not nations until WW1. So this doesn't mean that a few select nations surrounding God's focus nation of Israel can't also be trees. Brought back to life at a similar time as Israel. In time to play their roles in the end time prophecies.

If Trees symbolize nations think a moment. Cedars of Lebanon means Lebanon is represented by the cedar. It's on their flag.

Lebanon, Syria and Iraq (Assyria) as well as Jordan (Moab, Ammon and the third one I'm forgetting) all came back to life in modern times just around the same time as Israel (a bit before) as a result of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in WW1. These are all enemies of the nation of Israel. Those trees hate the fig tree.

So I think Israel could well be symbolized as the fig tree ESPECIALLY when we see that Jesus cursed the fig just before this. He wanted fruit and it was barren. He cursed it and it withered.

What happened with Israel? Jesus came to them, offered them His Kingdom if they would recognize him (not just the people, but the RULERS of the people, the Jewish authorities who ended up crucifying Him) as their Messiah. He looked for fruit, they were barren as a NATION (not as individuals who would become the church) NATIONAL Israel rejected Him, the fig tree rejected Him.

As a result their nation withered and died as a nation 40 years later. (40 years is a time of testing) as Rome expelled them and the diaspora began. (some always remained in the land just as happened under the Babylonian exile btw)

As a nation that fig tree was dead.

Till GOD in HIS time in 1948 brought that fig tree back to life.
 
BUT here's where I agree with Arnold and with Tim and Amir

What is the length of a generation? Who knows. There's a bunch of answers to that question. 75-80, up to 100 years. Maybe even 120

Yes nobody wants to wait that long for the Rapture and the evil of this world to be stopped BUT there is a beautiful flexibility in the way a generation can be perceived. It prevents us from having a specific answer

Which I think God intended.

Just like the day age model- 6 "days" and then a 7th for a sabbath rest. If Peter and Amos and some one else (foggy night in my brain) is saying a day is as 1000 years - that whole concept can be a general outline without a specified date because we don't know for sure how many years it's been since creation. Different people add it up differently. We don't even remember exactly what year Jesus was crucified and rose again- it might be 30 AD thru 33 AD, the answers vary. Like the feast of Trumpets, it's a flexible feast. It's the day that nobody is quite sure of. By God's design.

All the ways we could add it up, we are prevented from knowing for sure.

No man knows the day or the hour, only God the Father knows. While in the flesh Jesus was not privy to that knowledge as He pointed out but now He perhaps does, or not.

The day age theory as outlined in the Jewish writings and Dead Sea Scrolls goes like this: First 2000 years from Creation till the call of Abraham is the Age of Chaos. Then Abraham's call till about the year 1 AD or so was called the Age of Torah (Law) and the rabbis always said Elijah taught this and that Elijah said the next 2000 were the age of GRACE. Finally the age of Messiah for the last 1000 years.
 
BUT here's where I agree with Arnold and with Tim and Amir

What is the length of a generation? Who knows. There's a bunch of answers to that question. 75-80, up to 100 years. Maybe even 120

Yes nobody wants to wait that long for the Rapture and the evil of this world to be stopped BUT there is a beautiful flexibility in the way a generation can be perceived. It prevents us from having a specific answer

Which I think God intended.

Just like the day age model- 6 "days" and then a 7th for a sabbath rest. If Peter and Amos and some one else (foggy night in my brain) is saying a day is 1000 years - that whole concept can be a general outline without a specified date because we don't know for sure how many years it's been since creation. Different people add it up differently. We don't even remember exactly what year Jesus was crucified and rose again- it might be 30 AD thru 33 AD, the answers vary. Like the feast of Trumpets, it's a flexible feast. It's the day that nobody is quite sure of. By God's design.

All the ways we could add it up, we are prevented from knowing for sure.

No man knows the day or the hour, only God the Father knows. While in the flesh Jesus was not privy to that knowledge as He pointed out but now He perhaps does, or not.

The day age theory as outlined in the Jewish writings and Dead Sea Scrolls goes like this: First 2000 years from Creation till the call of Abraham is the Age of Chaos. Then Abraham's call till about the year 1 AD or so was called the Age of Torah (Law) and the rabbis always said Elijah taught this and that Elijah said the next 2000 were the age of GRACE. Finally the age of Messiah for the last 1000 years.

6 Days shalt thou labour and on the 7th day you shall rest.
 
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