The Rapture is My Precious Hope

By Jonathan Brentner

Why do I spend so much time writing about and defending the biblical foundation of the pretribulation Rapture? It’s because Jesus’ imminent appearing is so much more than just sound theology to me, it’s my precious hope.

My purpose here is not to defend the doctrine of the pretribulation Rapture as I have done in numerous blog posts as well as in my latest book, The Triumph of the Redeemed. Instead, I chose to explain why my hope in Jesus’ appearing is so dear to my heart.

The Rapture Is a Biblical Event
Jesus is my salvation and my righteousness; I know this is true because God’s Word tells me so. My faith rests on what Scripture assures me concerning my salvation, which includes Jesus’ death on the cross in my place, His resurrection, and His promise of eternal life for all those who believe.

“What does this have to do with the Rapture?” you ask. The Bible also tells me about Jesus’ appearing to take me home to the place He’s preparing for me.

Notice the close connection that Paul makes with things that happen during the Rapture with our Gospel hope:

“And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved.” Romans 8:23-24a

I cherish my hope in Jesus’ appearing because of my love for the words of Scripture that the Lord has cultivated inside me since an early age, but that’s a story for another time. My love of God’s Word certainly extends to what it teaches me about Jesus’ return to take me home to glory (Colossians 3:4).

The Rapture is When I Will See Jesus​

In 1 Corinthians 13:12 Paul wrote these words:

“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.”

The Rapture is the time when the Lord will clear away the fog of this life and I will see Jesus face to face.

In the meantime, I press forward with my calling, writing, and service for Jesus. However, there’s a sense in which I feel the “fog of war” that those engaged in active combat often experience. I have an enemy that messes with my feelings and thoughts and brings fierce opposition to my doorstep, even from those once close to me.

At Jesus’ appearing, I will see my beloved Savior and appear before Him to receive rewards for faithful service in this life. I long both to see Him face to face and hear His true appraisal of my life and service for Him. For now, I “see in a mirror dimly” in anticipation of the day when my faith will be sight and I will revel in His presence.

The Rapture is When I will Receive My New Body​

The Rapture will also be the time when I will receive my incorruptible and immortal body (Philippians 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55). Perhaps the saddest aspect of pastors ignoring the Rapture is the absence of any teaching about the imperishable bodies we will receive at the time of the Rapture. I don’t recall any sermon in the past twenty-five years where a pastor has preached about this glorious aspect of our “blessed hope” beyond a fleeting mention that everyone soon forgot.

I realize that with age, this promise becomes increasingly precious. I also know how quickly this life passes and if you have not yet felt the impact of aging, you will soon.

Yet regardless of age, most of us endure illnesses and physical ailments from which we never fully recover; this is also true for me. Why wouldn’t I long for my glorified body, the one that the Lord promises to give to me at His appearing? But this is just one aspect of the glorious future that lies ahead for me and for all who know Jesus as their Savoir.

The Rapture Will Signify Freedom from the Presence of Sin​

The Rapture will signify the start of an eternal existence where I will be free from the presence of sin. We all have weaknesses as I know I surely do; some of which I might even be unaware. But a glorious day is coming when those things will all be part of my past and I will no longer sin, but fully experience the righteousness of Christ that God has already ben imputed to me. I can hardly wait for that day!

Revelation 21:4 explains what this freedom from sin will mean for all eternity:

“He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

The Rapture Will Bring Inner Wholeness​

Along with the freedom from sin will come an inner wholeness such as I have never experienced in my lifetime. I long for this with all my heart.

In his book All Things New, author and counselor John Eldredge wrote this:

We are all traumatized and fragmented; no one passes through this vale of tears without it. And our Healer will make us whole again…. Think of it—to be wholehearted. To be filled with goodness from head to toe. To have an inner glory that matches the glory of your new body…”https://www.jonathanbrentner.com/ht...22/2/21/the-rapture-is-my-precious-hope#_edn1

The Lord has healed so many of the searing wounds from my past. However, I still yearn for the total inner wholeness about which John Eldredge writes. I continue to feel “traumatized and fragmented” in some ways, which causes me to yearn all the more for the time of Jesus’ upward call and the time of inner wholeness that will envelope my entire being as I experience the promises of Revelation 21:4.

My scars, both emotional and physical, remind me that a much better day lies just ahead!

Jesus Is Preparing a Place for Me​

I treasure the Lord’s promise in John 14:2-3:

In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

What will it be like to see the place that Jesus has prepared for His bride? This promise is for all true New Testament saints, but there’s also a personal element to it as well. Jesus is preparing a special place for me and for you.

I often wonder about what my “place” will look like. I know it will be much more wonderful than I can imagine as will everything else be in heaven.

The Rapture Marks the Time of Seeing Dear Family Members and Friends who are Already with Jesus​

There’s also my hope I will see dear family members, my parents, and my friends already with Jesus in heaven. My dad died when I was ten and it was then that I first experienced the hope that I possess in the future meeting in the air that Paul describes in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. I also look forward to seeing family members and friends who are still alive in glory with their imperishable bodies.

I recognize that this aspect of our hope comes with sorrow for many, as it does to me, because of offspring or family members who reject Jesus and His saving message. I live with this sadness every day and pray that once the Rapture happens, if not before, my children will turn to the true Jesus of the Bible.

The Rapture Marks The Beginning of the Lord Judging the Wickedness that has Become so Prevalent​

Like many of you, the evil, injustice, and violence of our time troubles me at times. There’s coming a time, however, when the Lord will judge all these things in perfect righteousness. Psalm 37:1-20 brings me back to reality and calms my heart amid the turmoil and sickness of this world. Justice will someday prevail through the earth!

The Rapture marks the beginning of the day of the Lord, which includes all of the Tribulation, when Jesus will justly deal with the wickedness and wild deception of our world. It only appears as though many are getting away with their vile schemes; the Lord will hold them accountable some day.

The Rapture is my precious hope because it’s the beginning of an exciting and joyous adventure that will never end. I long for the day I see Jesus and as long as I have breath, I will continue to defend what Scripture teaches about this glorious hope.

The above reasons reveal why my hope is so dear to me; it’s so much more than just sound theology, although it’s all that as well.

Maranatha!!

The Rapture is My Precious Hope — Jonathan Brentner

My purpose for this post is not to defend the doctrine of the pretribulation Rapture as I have done in numerous blog posts as well as in my latest book, The Triumph of the Redeemed . Instead, I chose to explain why my hope in Jesus’ appearing is so dear to my heart.

www.jonathanbrentner.com

 

[Andy C]

Good read, and I hope the call Home comes quickly.

When I was a child, the world was much safer. I would go out and play ball with my friends for long hours, and my father would tell me to be home when it day turned dark and the lights turned on, on the field we played on. Just like then, when darkness comes upon us, the Light will shine, and it will be time to go Home.

 

[mattfivefour]

Beautifully said, Andy!

 

[Baby Yoda]

Beautifully said, Andy!

Agree. Perfect.

 

[Baby Yoda]

The Rapture Marks The Beginning of the Lord Judging the Wickedness that has Become so Prevalent

Thought at first that said Wickedness has become so President.

 

[LightOfMyLife]

Thought at first that said Wickedness has become so President.

What you said is true though. This world has become so evil so much deception and violence in this crazy world. I Wanna Go Home. Come Quickly, Lord Jesus!

 

[Andy C]

The Rapture is my precious hope because it’s the beginning of an exciting and joyous adventure that will never end. I long for the day I see Jesus and as long as I have breath, I will continue to defend what Scripture teaches about this glorious hope.

Amen, my schedule has been cleared for liftoff.

 

[Margery]

Amen, my schedule has been cleared for liftoff.

Mine too!

This is my blessed hope. While I make the usual reasonable plans for an orderly life if the Lord tarries, my heart is set on the Rapture. Any day, any time.

Now would be good.

Last Friday the other 5 Christian ladies (the widow gang) met at the mall. Of the 6 of us, I'd say 3/6 expect the Rapture.

The others are busy trying to understand Revelation as allegory-- in between praising some yo yo who wrote a book about the Tribulation happening back in Nero's day. He figures it was written before Nero died which it wasn't! And so therefore the Tribulation as pictured in Revelation was fulfilled with Nero. (Preterism)

Because they really never thought about it before and the Rapture is so 80's and out of style theologically. The hipsters amongst us are open minded enough to question the Rapture.


Out of the half that still expect the Rapture more or less --one is a little shaky. Maybe a LOT shaky. I used to teach a bit at the home fellowship at her house for a few months one year and she's the one I go to the gym with. She has taken sides against Israel, and just see's the "poor people in Gaza" - and sadly that is the majority view too. Oh and how wonderful Kamala Harris would be as a President. How evil Trump is.

One used to be in my Bible Study as I taught it for several years and is still fairly solid. She is still supportive of Israel. She hasn't expressed support of Kamala

Then there's me. The dinosaur in the group.

But when I bring up the Early Church Fathers firmly dating Revelation as written AFTER AD 70- around 96AD when John was an old man then I am reminded by one of them that they aren't really a Bible Study.

Apparently they aren't into truth or history that backs up the later date which makes the Bible make sense. Because early Church Fathers makes it too Bible ish I guess.

But sharing a book that tears down the truth of the Rapture and the book of Revelation is just fine.

One of them, a preacher's wife shared that she's never been able to make sense of Revelation.

I didn't bellow NO SHERLOCK! Even though that is what came to my mind in that moment, because I was trying to be compassionate and shed a little light- at least as much as they'll allow themselves to hear.


I've actually wept tears over this- several times since Friday. My heart breaks over the ignorance. Yet they think they are good Bible reading Bible believing Christians. But their ears are closed to the old ways- Young Earth Creation, A Rapture coming soon, A 7 year Tribulation after that and then the Millennial Reign of King Jesus on Davids throne in JERUSALEM!!!!

The state of the church is mirrored in these ladies.

But they don't want me to change their minds. And they wonder why I don't go to their church anymore. (it was the one I left when they started to say that Genesis was poetry, and the Flood was local. Oh and God just oversaw evolution over long ages cause SCIENCE!!!) The leadership plugged their ears firmly then and George and I left.

Laodicea is blissfully unaware of the day, the hour, the season, and is in for a huge shock.

 

[mattfivefour]

Sadly, that is the truth of our world today, Marge.

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

Mine too!

This is my blessed hope. While I make the usual reasonable plans for an orderly life if the Lord tarries, my heart is set on the Rapture. Any day, any time.

Now would be good.

Last Friday the other 5 Christian ladies (the widow gang) met at the mall. Of the 6 of us, I'd say 3/6 expect the Rapture.

The others are busy trying to understand Revelation as allegory-- in between praising some yo yo who wrote a book about the Tribulation happening back in Nero's day. He figures it was written before Nero died which it wasn't! And so therefore the Tribulation as pictured in the Rapture was fulfilled with Nero. (Preterism)

Because they really never thought about it before and the Rapture is so 80's and out of style theologically. The hipsters amongst us are open minded enough to question the Rapture.


Out of the half that still expect the Rapture more or less --one is a little shaky. Maybe a LOT shaky. I used to teach a bit at the home fellowship at her house for a few months one year and she's the one I go to the gym with. She has taken sides against Israel, and just see's the "poor people in Gaza" - and sadly that is the majority view too. Oh and how wonderful Kamala Harris would be as a President. How evil Trump is.

One used to be in my Bible Study as I taught it for several years and is still fairly solid. She is still supportive of Israel. She hasn't expressed support of Kamala

Then there's me. The dinosaur in the group.

But when I bring up the Early Church Fathers firmly dating Revelation as written AFTER AD 70- around 96AD when John was an old man then I am reminded by one of them that they aren't really a Bible Study.

Apparently they aren't into truth or history that backs up the later date which makes the Bible make sense. Because early Church Fathers makes it too Bible ish I guess.

But sharing a book that tears down the truth of the Rapture and the book of Revelation is just fine.

One of them, a preacher's wife shared that she's never been able to make sense of Revelation.

I didn't bellow NO SHERLOCK! Even though that is what came to my mind in that moment, because I was trying to be compassionate and shed a little light- at least as much as they'll allow themselves to hear.


I've actually wept tears over this- several times since Friday. My heart breaks over the ignorance. Yet they think they are good Bible reading Bible believing Christians. But their ears are closed to the old ways- Young Earth Creation, A Rapture coming soon, A 7 year Tribulation after that and then the Millennial Reign of King Jesus on Davids throne in JERUSALEM!!!!

The state of the church is mirrored in these ladies.

But they don't want me to change their minds. And they wonder why I don't go to their church anymore. (it was the one I left when they started to say that Genesis was poetry, and the Flood was local. Oh and God just oversaw evolution over long ages cause SCIENCE!!!) The leadership plugged their ears firmly then and George and I left.

Laodicea is blissfully unaware of the day, the hour, the season, and is in for a huge shock.

Sorry Margery you cracked me up at the Sherlock reference

 

[Margery]

Sadly, that is the truth of our world today, Marge.

Adrian, thank you because I can't help crying about it! It breaks my heart. My consolation is that everyone here understands, and my kids, their spouses and the granddaughters and closest friends.

I LOVE God's people. Israel and the Church and my heart breaks over the state of things here at the end of the age, just before the Rapture.

My people PERISH for lack of knowledge.

Everyone of these ladies has unsaved kids or grandkids. Their children suffer because they lack knowledge of the Word and I weep.

 

[Margery]

Sorry Margery you cracked me up at the Sherlock reference

Sadly it's the exact words I thought when she said that with such a puzzled expression. Fortunately my filter was ON!

 

[Eric Nicholas]

Sadly it's the exact words I thought when she said that with such a puzzled expression. Fortunately my filter was ON!

I hear you. It happens to me more often than I care for. I've lived around so many hard people with that kind of language, and trust me, I'm not blaming anyone else, but it's really in there. I've said around 4 bad words today and thought a few more than that. That's a hundred less than it used to be. Lord, I just want out of here. The rapture is my precious hope, indeed. I'm. So. Over. Me.

 

[mattfivefour]

Everyone of these ladies has unsaved kids or grandkids. Their children suffer because they lack knowledge of the Word and I weep.

But I believe the vast majority of these people, Marge, will be part of the great coming to faith that will follow the Rapture as those who have heard the gospel but ignored it will realize what has happened and will cry out to God in repentance. He will certainly hear and save them. After all, Revelation tells us that the multitude of saints in Heaven whom none can number "have come out of the Great Tribulation."

"9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: 'Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!' 11 And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, 'Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.'​

13 Then one of the elders addressed me: 'These in white robes,' he asked, 'who are they, and where have they come from?' 14 'Sir,' I answered, 'you know.' So he replied, 'These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.16 Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst; nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ ” --Revelation 7:9-17.​

​

Let that comfort those who are worried about their loved ones who may be left behind.

 

[Margery]

But I believe the vast majority of these people, Marge, will be part of the great coming to faith that will follow the Rapture as those who have heard the gospel but ignored it will realize what has happened and will cry out to God in repentance. He will certainly hear and save them. After all, Revelation tells us that the multitude of saints in Heaven whom none can number "have come out of the Great Tribulation."

"9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: 'Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!' 11 And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, 'Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.'​

13 Then one of the elders addressed me: 'These in white robes,' he asked, 'who are they, and where have they come from?' 14 'Sir,' I answered, 'you know.' So he replied, 'These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.16 Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst; nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ ” --Revelation 7:9-17.​

​

Let that comfort those who are worried about their loved ones who may be left behind.

That is a good reminder! Even if the Lord tarries, it's not going to be THAT long considering. These wayward children and grandchildren that they cry for and pray over - they will be in that generation and that multitude of the martyrs and Tribulation saints that are as yet unsaved. They still have a chance, now and later.

Thank you!

I think what stings is the lack of teaching, the lack of Biblical understanding. The wisdom of this age has overrun the churches and seminaries. The Word is so clear if we just take it at face value and believe it.

But it's Laodicea, and the time is ripe for Rapture. The apostasy is everywhere and spreading fast. Time is almost up.

 

[Margery]

Pete Garcia - I was listening to this: - YouTube earlier. Pete was talking with Ken Ortiz, and it was all about the the attacks on the Rapture, the church, the apostasy around us. It went on quite a long time, but a lot at the end was just Q&A, I broke it up and took breaks when I got tired. How the culture around us invaded the church.

and next I'm going to go watch this: - YouTube which is all about Preterism and partial preterism, which is exactly what I was encountering on Friday.

 

[TCC]

But I believe the vast majority of these people, Marge, will be part of the great coming to faith that will follow the Rapture as those who have heard the gospel but ignored it will realize what has happened and will cry out to God in repentance. He will certainly hear and save them. After all, Revelation tells us that the multitude of saints in Heaven whom none can number "have come out of the Great Tribulation."

"9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: 'Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!' 11 And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, 'Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.'​

13 Then one of the elders addressed me: 'These in white robes,' he asked, 'who are they, and where have they come from?' 14 'Sir,' I answered, 'you know.' So he replied, 'These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.16 Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst; nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’ ” --Revelation 7:9-17.​

​

Let that comfort those who are worried about their loved ones who may be left behind.

Also, I am thinking of seal 5. As there is much persecution in seal 5 early in the tribulation. I appreciate the conventional perspective of all the seals included in the tribulation. As mentioned I am pretrib rapture but see trib start at seal 3. If by chance there is anything to that, it would only be seal 3 and 4 until a great persecution breaks forth. Which no doubt would be the wide and vast believers accumulating over the brief seal season following the rapture and collectively swooped up in the Great escalating Begining of Sorrows. Blessings.

 

[mattfivefour]

Also, I am thinking of seal 5. As there is much persecution in seal 5 early in the tribulation. I appreciate the conventional perspective of all the seals included in the tribulation. As mentioned I am pretrib rapture but see trib start at seal 3. If by chance there is anything to that, it would only be seal 3 and 4 until a great persecution breaks forth. Which no doubt would be the wide and vast believers accumulating over the brief seal season following the rapture and collectively swooped up in the Great escalating Begining of Sorrows. Blessings.

So you think we will be here for seals one and two? I don't think so. The first two seals are as much a part of the tribulation period as are the subsequent five. There is an intensification process from the first seal through the 7th, and all for a purpose-- the squeezing out of the last of the gospel harvest and the revealing of all of the enemies of God to the very last one. And all for the glory of God.

I believe it is a mistake to view the first two seals as manifesting the same sort of conquest and wars as we have seen throughout history. Jesus said plainly that "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." To say that only the last five seals are the great tribulation is to make the first two seals meaningless, for God could just have said, "History will repeat itself until the five seals" and been correct. Therefore he would have only needed five seals. But there are seven seals because there are seven stages in the manifestation of God's judgment and wrath in the tribulation. And we make a mistake if we think otherwise.

I believe the words of Jesus and I therefore think that the conquering and the wars brought on by the first two seals are something unlike anything that has ever been seen before. And I also believe the words of Jesus that we will be removed from this earth before any of it begins. Remember, it is a time "such as never has been or ever will be again." It will be terrible. But the bride of Jesus Christ will be with Him in heaven for the wedding feast while the horrors transpire on this Earth. And, taking Jesus at His word, those horrors will begin with the first seal.

 

[TCC]

"The conquering and the wars brought on by the first two seals are something unlike anything that has ever been seen before." AMEN -- & I believe we have an absolute E ticket ride (remember those at Disneyland?) forming right beneath our feet possibly to test those them there waters.

Thanks Pastor for replying. First off I'd like to say before anything else that I do honestly consider a potential of the tribulation to start maybe as far out os 2030. Which may not seem very far for most. But its a lot further out than lets say 2026, for example. Which I am inclined to consider in ways. But I mention this because I am of the school of thought that what I am sharing here may of course be off. And that the tribulation might be a decade or so out. I doubt that. But I do consider it.

And thanks Pastor for your reply in another way. I truly appreciate any level of sincere godly pushback. Because I know I likely sound like this guy: As confusing as all the varying sides and issues considering end times are, and how there are several different views, and much is somewhat in hot debate today...along comes Teren. Having to roll some martian dice with, "Howa bout this?" Montra of some strange "Only the last 5 toes of seals in the trib? Like WHO does that? Lol. And do we really need this jokster to weigh in "Just when things were confused enough with all the varying denominational positions of end times as it is?" Like is there now the "Two toe seal shuffle position?" lol. If it did not make so much sense to me, I would not really make time for myself. So I really appreciate you granting me with discussion on the subject.

. . . . .

THE THEORY OF DISAPROVAL
Honestly Pastor, I don't like it either. I feel like it is pretty messy, even sloppy of me to have two seals belonging to limbo. But its not a fly by night position. It has stood 7 years of criticism. Now, whether or not it is true is of course something else. But I believe I have made it easy to prove. Or a better way to say that...an easy way to disprove...like right now. Because t just so happens that the times we live in provide great opportunity not so much to prove my seal theory but to disprove it. So we are in an excellent time to "disprove it." We are right there. Only literally months away.

ISRAEL AS METOPHORIC 3D MODEL PROPHESY (SOCIAL ARTIFACT PROPHECY POSTURING)
The reason I see the first two seals as separate from the tribulation is not because I am trying to look at end times in some new way. The problem for me is Israel in this. Because I see seal 2 as Ez 38. You can even find seal two language in Ez 38 (v21). And we can see that map approaching, can't we? Now of course I may not be accurate. Seal two indeed may not be Ez 38. Of course. But with all that is falling into shape, it should be noted that it is reasonsable to consider (even as Andy Woods has). So yeah if seal 2 is Ez 38, I agree pastor, we have not seen that before. But more so than it needing to be ww3, which is another view on that, I see its utility quite the opposite of "meaningless." And everything to do with "meaning," actually. So that is my first difficulty when I look at the seals. Why?

IF SEAL 2 & 3 COULD SHAKE HANDS
Because if seal one is AC making a deal with the many AND seal two is EZ 38...that makes 0 sense to me though...lol. Andy Woods holds that view. And i respect him greatly. But it just does not make sense the AC makes a 7 year deal with the many and the next thing to happen is Israel is almost annihilated. The Jews would not trust that contract anymore. And if seal one is AC making a covenant with the many, how is it that Ez 38 is not significant enough to gloss over and just then focus on, "and In the middle the AC violates it?" That just does not seem like reasonable prophecy grammar though at all. Actually it flies in the face of taking it seriously it would seem--like to be at that level of not too fiting though. Now of course maybe seal two is ww3. And that would actually make sense why seal 3 is famine strategized. But...

EZ 38 GRAMMAR
...you know pastor, the more I wrestle through the eschatology flavors, the more it seems like a core sense i've noticed really has so very much huge dimension. I just believe the more we solve for Israel, the more correct it would seem we might be. I've just noticed that in terms of how other things seem to line up too. So like in this instance, it would seem like the following to me on seal two:

* Ez 38 is the largest piece of prophesy in the entire Bible on any one subject. And it just so happens to be about Israel. On the merits, it would make sense that what might bring some clearlity to the day and age end times is most for, would be provided with a massive data set of detail such as Ez 38. Lo and behold though, we see it today. And increasing.

So with all that going on, it suggests to me that it is likely seal two serves as EZ 38 more than lets say than ww3. Because right now ww3 is a globalist reset strategy. Of the two, which might be more likely though? Which of the two would God have more heart toward? Ww3 or Israel? I understand that is not exactly the way to do Eschatology. But what it can tend to do is lineup our own days with the heart of God toward Israe--it it might in some way.

. . . . .

WHAT'S NORMAL N E WAY?
So this brings me to seal one. What do we see in politics right now? We see a USA presidency coming up. And it is this: Keep the left in power and ww3. Elect Trump and he brings peace in 24 hours. Those are the campaign options. What will Americans ultimately vote for? Sending our kids to senseless central banking wars, or elect someone who is an adult and can negotiate peace? Only God knows of course how this plays out. But i'd venture to say the latter is most likely. If peace, then what? Abraham Accords strengthen. Saudi Arabia normalizes with Israel. Israel gets peace and safety extraordinare likely. Hmmm. That don't sound normal.

IF PLAYFUL SEALS HAD KFC BUTTERED ROLES TO GO WITH DINNER TONIGHT
Today it seems in prophecy like Tom Hughes, whom I actually like and adore, that we are all awaiting the man with all the answers to be the AC and bring false peace. But what if that is just a church blue print in error? What if that peace is real. But mostly...for Israel? See how things can tend to be "All roads lead to Israel?" Even more, how Israel, in how we might slice it under things I am trying to consider, break in favor of Israel...Israel...Israel? Almost like God is using that country prophetically. In this lasest estimate, it would be Israel vs the the church understanding of AC role.

Speaking of roles, pastor, this is where my socks get kind of blown off when I considered this some years ago. I know we tend to see Rev 4 as a rapture mirror. The 24 elders as the raptured church...and then the seals are open. So right there we have a deep rooted staple for pretrib. But what if we don't need it for pretrib to yet still be true? There are good arguments on several sides of how to look at the 24 elders. But the Bible never tells us Rev 4 is a mirror structure of the rapture. Again, this has become a church template of pretribbers...of which I am one of. But it does not seem to me to be necessary to have. If pretrib is true (and I believe it is) it does not have to be true according to how we think it might or must be. You may not share this Rev 4 view. But I am just saying I am familiar with it and notice it would be difficult to depart from if held. I understand if so. And by that I am not saying my view has to be accurate either. I am just saying I understand Rev 4 sets the stage not to see what I am saying if we look at it according to coventional pretrib views.

Roles -- what if seal 1 and 2 are roles? You might ask me what have I been smoking? lol. But if Ez 38 is seal 2...would it not be an intro role of welcoming Israel to what? Their 70th week. So if it is their 70th week they are being welcomed to, then in some sense Ez 38 is that main theme focus actor taking a bow possibly? Like think of an opera. If Israel is introduced to her 70th week, then hmmm...is seal 1 maybe a role too then? But what? We have little trouble making seal 1 a role already, right? AC. But what if it is a role. Just not the role we mostly associate it with?

What if seal 1 is similar but not exactly what the church has held for 1800 years? We would be hard pressed to find Rev 6:2 defined as AC prior to the 1800s (which is the earliest I have seen it mentioned). I am not saying the church was correct in seeing seal 1 as the church, or the word, or the spirit, etc. The most famous is "Christ." Which we know He comes at the end. But still...they thought seal 1 was positive for 1800 years. And maybe that is helpful to consider when we look at it. Other than the covenant with the many...i see 0 exegesis for AC as seal 1. It seems to have become that because unlike the 1800 years of attempted exegesis, the 21st century often settles with: Well its not Christ so it has to be AC. Which is of course anti-exegesis as much as it is that we might see antichrist in it in ways I believe .

Does the AC rule for 7 years or 3.5? Only 3.5. Yet I think it is key that seal one is a "role." I just see it as a different role. I see it potentially as peace and safety...here we go again...for Israel. As a mode to define its role. Which to me, looks to be America (as the superpower representing age of grace gentile rule). To me, seal one is gentile rule age of grace white swang song. Like a waving good by to age of grace. But absolutely the opposite of meaningless. Rather, possibly God's take down of globalism as a way to demonstrate to Israel His promise to them of a 1,000 year reign on the other side of the tribulation. Should they care to rapture with the church. So in that picture, that role, it would seem to be the best fallen mankind in the gentile age can be. That God might use to amp up Israel for...their seal 2 t-off...introducing them as receiving the baton pass from the gentile rule age to an Israel centric focus (as it is their 70th week...not the AC's, not the 10 nation confederacy's...not the globalist....but Israel's). So in actuallity, the role view of seal 1 and 2 are richly and thickly dripping with meaning. Just a different species of meaning.

. . . . .

So we are at a time where we can make Teren's view a super easy out--he's an easy out. Trump loses. America tanks. Globalists swallow us up and bring us across the tribulation start line. In order for my view to survive, the following has to happen:

• Trump win
• Abraham Accord empowerment
• Saudi normalization
• WW3 averted
• Israel gets peace and safety extraordinare

If these things do not commence moving forward in brief and observable time, I will gladly put the S1,2 Role theory to bed. But right now, over the course of the next several months...we can let Providence decide. Even if all that I have bulleted remains, it might just mean we can track easier with Providence than we might have imagined and it still may not explain eschatology well enough. I am aware. Amen. But its a pretty good college try though, right?

Please keep in mind, I am a cessationist. So this view of mine is just me. Just my observations. I imagine a lot will be off. But personally...not everything. Guess we shall see. But I hope that makes a bit more sense in my context?

. . . . .

PS...brother you mentioned "the Great Tribulation." Ok so here is the way i understand Revelation. And please keep in mind, Revelation was a book I stayed away from for 20 years. And only started looking since 2017. When it seemed like things were getting wanky. So I am not exactly an eschatological geek proper. I'm a dabbler.

* 4 - 22 future

FIRSE HALF
* 6-8

SECOND HALF
* 9-19

I believe the "great tribulation" is the second half. Not the whole tribulation. Like Got questions observes: What is the Great Tribulation? | GotQuestions.org

LINEAR VS MODULAR NARRATIVE
In addition to that, I would say that chapter 7 where "Great tribulation" is mentioned is a glimpse into the second half. Now that might sound like I am a hippie doing pyote...lol. But I believe Revelation is linear but in a modular narrative kind of way. Modular narrative is a form of literature I ran into in later years schooling. It is most used in Hollywood. It was not a literary style until the 1800's. But it would make sense God write Rev in the literary device genre age it is most revealingly for possibly. So modular narrative focuses on them and tells a story clustering around that. Like I share though brother, i believe Rev is primarily linear. But does have huge earmarks of incorporating module narrative.

TRIBULATION VS GREAT TRIBULATION -- ROLE OF ISRAEL FEATURE
So how might that work in chapter 7? We see the 144k later in 14, yes? Some see that as saints in heaven or something. I see 14 as an inauguration activited after the 144k were sealed in protection from the trumpets (I would understand that seals and trumpets end the first half and bowls are the whole second half). Because it would seem the 144k come out of the 6th seal portion of the tribulation. But are not used of God until the second half. Which is where I would see chapter 10 an inaugural tribute to the 144k second half ministry (after the 2 witnesses leave). But in chapter 7, you have them "introduced" as they are being sealed for a time. Protected. And when they witness...they bring in the chapter 7 people to heaven. So chapter 7 seems to me to be a view of second half because of the 144k introduced. Its like chapter 7 wants us to know the 144k that get sealed at that time (during the first half right before trumpets). And those 144k that are being sealed will win millions in the second half. Like a rejoicing of God using Israel fanially as they were meant to be all along.

Also we can see in the language of chapter seven mention of being protected from the hot sun. Which is, to me, a reference to the 4th bowl. Which would be the second half.

WHERE I LIKELY BECOME POSSIBLY MOST ANETHAMA lol
I see the first seal as the rapture bang zone likely. The irony...huh? The church sees AC. I see rapture...lol. It almost feels like Green Ancres. Like something Mr. Haney would say: "The first seal's about the rapture, right?" I don't think we are here for the 2nd seal proper. Because I see seal 2 as Ez 38. Which to me introduces Israel to her 70th week. That has nothing to do with us. But I believe God provides Israel with an option to rapture with the church....after showing her majestic peace and safety. I guess I would see that as JD Farag. Or how he used to: "When the bombs come down...we go up." I believe that is likely accurate. And once again...if true...hmmm...Israel locates the rapture for us...lol. Almost comical how so. If so

Blessings.s

 

[mattfivefour]

Lotta "what ifs", brother. And lots of speculation (to which we are all reduced, lacking God's perfect knowledge.) Yet all of it interesting. I still am not in your court, but I truly appreciate the discussion. Iron sharpens iron.