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Security in Christ: Conditional ... or not? Part 1

mattfivefour

Admin/Pastor
Staff member
You will find a lot of scriptural help here on CCF aimed at encouraging believers in the faith. To that end, I am bringing forward a study I wrote a few years ago summarizing what the Bible tells us about our security in Christ. I am presenting it here as a 4-part series.

Security in Christ: Conditional … or not? Part 1

As a pastor (and while a moderator for a large online Christian community for the better part of the past decade), I am constantly coming across people who live in utter fear that they have lost their salvation. Something they have done—or something they have not done—has caused God to turn away from them.

Now, we should never take God or His salvation for granted. Godly fear is a good thing. But let it be godly fear, not man-made fear; let it be scriptural, not spurious. So I want to share with you what I have shared with literally hundreds of people before, the truth that God brought me, myself, into after years of living in fear, bound by discouragement and defeat in my daily walk. It’s a truth that will both liberate you and equip you for victorious living.

Jesus prayed for Peter that he would not lose his faith though Satan sought to sift him. The Father answered that prayer. He answered EVERY prayer of Jesus. And He still does. Jesus is currently interceding for us just as He did for Peter. His prayers are no less efficacious today than they were back then. And if He prayed for Peter's faith, we can be assured He prays for ours.

John tells us that Jesus said, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." (John 6:39) And what has the Father given into Christ's hands? All who would come to Him. So for all those who have truly come to Christ, Jesus will ensure that He loses not one. He will seek the missing hundredth sheep. He will welcome the prodigal home. He will hunt for the missing precious item.

God says through Paul that "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6) He. Not we. In 1 Corinthians 1:8 Paul, again speaking under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, says, "[Jesus Christ] shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." That word translated "confirm" is the Greek βέβαιος (bebaios) which literally means "to secure", "to make sure", "to sustain in a position." Understand that. The Holy Spirit is saying that JESUS—not you, not me, not anybody else—only Jesus Himself can and will secure us ...TO THE VERY END! And as if to stamp "Done! Signed! Sealed! Delivered!" to this statement, we find the very next sentence: "God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:9)

GOD! GOD! GOD! Is faithful! He Himself adds Himself to the certitude and the security of the statement that Jesus will perform what He has promised in us—to the very end.

Do we not think that Christ has the power to do that? Do we not think that His ministrations today are as powerful, efficacious and all-sufficient as they have been since the moment when He created all that exists? Jude thought so. The apostle concludes his epistle with the words, "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." (Jude 1:24-25)

Does someone want to argue that God is able, but might not want to? That He is able, but somehow He withheld His ability from us? He is able, but we just slipped through a crack? He is able, but He who has named all the stars, who has numbered the hairs on our heads, who accounts for every grain of sand in the sea, who knows all the days of our lives before there is yet one written, He who upholds all things by the breath of His mouth, just somehow let us slip? It is ridiculous to even consider that.

Does someone want to argue that just as we choose to follow Christ, we can choose to not follow Him? At least this has the appearance of logic behind it. But it is no less false. When God determined to give man freedom to accept or reject Him, it was not without limit. God is still God. And it is clear from Scripture that once we surrender to Christ, we are now His and serve at His pleasure. We are not our own any longer, we are bought with a price. A man's slave might run from his wicked earthly master; Christ's slave cannot run from his heavenly Master. Wherever he or she goes, God is already there (Psalm 139:7-10).

Nor would he want to run from his heavenly master! Those who have never been Christ's in truth might turn from Him. The parable of the seed and the four types of ground shows that. But one who has been truly touched, who has been truly reborn, who has truly become a new creation, in whom dwells the Holy Spirit who has sealed Him to the day of Redemption (Ephesians 4:30), such a one can NEVER walk away from Christ, no matter the provocation. Anymore than he or she can willfully and carelessly live on in habitual and unrepentant sin.

I tell you where the idea that a true Christian can be lost comes from. And it isn't from Scripture. Oh, you can find verses that appear to indicate that someone who is saved can be lost; but in order to place that reading on those scriptures, you have to take them in isolation and ignore all of the other scriptures that show it is God's work to keep us and His promise to secure us. Just as no man can keep himself holy by his own efforts, no man can keep himself saved by his own efforts. It is God that does both. But the Holiness people, the legalists who develop long lists of rules for church members to follow, who inspect the outward what they call "fruit" of believers and who see all sin as NOT being covered by Christ's blood, these people have created a gospel in which one must meet these standards or be lost forever.

The KJV does not help in that because it sometimes uses the word "damnation" when the Greek actually signifies "condemnation". And God condemning something you do is quite different from God damning you!

The fact is that once we are truly saved, we are secure. Our behavior does not impact our salvation following salvation, any more than it impacted our salvation prior to salvation. We were enemies of God (Romans 5:10) and abominable in His sight (1 Peter 4:3). Yet He sent His Son to die for us while we were yet in that condition. His love for us was despite our filthy rags and our abominable nature. The prodigal son did not clean up and return home, he went there in fear and trembling in the rags he possessed. Yet the father "saw him while he was yet afar off" (Luke 15:20) and "moved with compassion" didn't stand there waiting for the raggedy, stinking son to come up to him; no, the father RAN to that filthy wretch and hugged him tight and kissed him and called for clean clothing and His own ring. That ring, my friends, signified that all that the Father had was now that son's. We ... are that prodigal son. God is that Father. And all that He has He gives us because we are in Christ. Nothing we can do will change that. And having once been away from the Father, nothing could ever induce us to leave again. As the disciples said, when Jesus asked them if they would leave Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life." (John 6:68) Exactly. There is no place to go for those who are Christ's, for they recognize that in Christ they have everything and they trust Him with all that they have.

So, is personal righteousness, holy behavior, not important? We’ll examine that in part 2.
 
@Andy C :thankyou: for bumping this!
But the Holiness people, the legalists who develop long lists of rules for church members to follow, who inspect the outward what they call "fruit" of believers and who see all sin as NOT being covered by Christ's blood, these people have created a gospel in which one must meet these standards or be lost forever.
Amen. They are so much like the Pharisees who made up Sabbath day laws to over restrict people living real lives. What I've been taught is that they understood that they lost the Solomonic Temple due to violation of the Sabbath year (70-yrs in exile to Babylon). Based on that a crippling legalism was built up to protect the Sabbath.
 
You will find a lot of scriptural help here on CCF aimed at encouraging believers in the faith. To that end, I am bringing forward a study I wrote a few years ago summarizing what the Bible tells us about our security in Christ. I am presenting it here as a 4-part series.

Security in Christ: Conditional … or not? Part 1

As a pastor (and while a moderator for a large online Christian community for the better part of the past decade), I am constantly coming across people who live in utter fear that they have lost their salvation. Something they have done—or something they have not done—has caused God to turn away from them.

Now, we should never take God or His salvation for granted. Godly fear is a good thing. But let it be godly fear, not man-made fear; let it be scriptural, not spurious. So I want to share with you what I have shared with literally hundreds of people before, the truth that God brought me, myself, into after years of living in fear, bound by discouragement and defeat in my daily walk. It’s a truth that will both liberate you and equip you for victorious living.

Jesus prayed for Peter that he would not lose his faith though Satan sought to sift him. The Father answered that prayer. He answered EVERY prayer of Jesus. And He still does. Jesus is currently interceding for us just as He did for Peter. His prayers are no less efficacious today than they were back then. And if He prayed for Peter's faith, we can be assured He prays for ours.

John tells us that Jesus said, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." (John 6:39) And what has the Father given into Christ's hands? All who would come to Him. So for all those who have truly come to Christ, Jesus will ensure that He loses not one. He will seek the missing hundredth sheep. He will welcome the prodigal home. He will hunt for the missing precious item.

God says through Paul that "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6) He. Not we. In 1 Corinthians 1:8 Paul, again speaking under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, says, "[Jesus Christ] shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." That word translated "confirm" is the Greek βέβαιος (bebaios) which literally means "to secure", "to make sure", "to sustain in a position." Understand that. The Holy Spirit is saying that JESUS—not you, not me, not anybody else—only Jesus Himself can and will secure us ...TO THE VERY END! And as if to stamp "Done! Signed! Sealed! Delivered!" to this statement, we find the very next sentence: "God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:9)

GOD! GOD! GOD! Is faithful! He Himself adds Himself to the certitude and the security of the statement that Jesus will perform what He has promised in us—to the very end.

Do we not think that Christ has the power to do that? Do we not think that His ministrations today are as powerful, efficacious and all-sufficient as they have been since the moment when He created all that exists? Jude thought so. The apostle concludes his epistle with the words, "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." (Jude 1:24-25)

Does someone want to argue that God is able, but might not want to? That He is able, but somehow He withheld His ability from us? He is able, but we just slipped through a crack? He is able, but He who has named all the stars, who has numbered the hairs on our heads, who accounts for every grain of sand in the sea, who knows all the days of our lives before there is yet one written, He who upholds all things by the breath of His mouth, just somehow let us slip? It is ridiculous to even consider that.

Does someone want to argue that just as we choose to follow Christ, we can choose to not follow Him? At least this has the appearance of logic behind it. But it is no less false. When God determined to give man freedom to accept or reject Him, it was not without limit. God is still God. And it is clear from Scripture that once we surrender to Christ, we are now His and serve at His pleasure. We are not our own any longer, we are bought with a price. A man's slave might run from his wicked earthly master; Christ's slave cannot run from his heavenly Master. Wherever he or she goes, God is already there (Psalm 139:7-10).

Nor would he want to run from his heavenly master! Those who have never been Christ's in truth might turn from Him. The parable of the seed and the four types of ground shows that. But one who has been truly touched, who has been truly reborn, who has truly become a new creation, in whom dwells the Holy Spirit who has sealed Him to the day of Redemption (Ephesians 4:30), such a one can NEVER walk away from Christ, no matter the provocation. Anymore than he or she can willfully and carelessly live on in habitual and unrepentant sin.

I tell you where the idea that a true Christian can be lost comes from. And it isn't from Scripture. Oh, you can find verses that appear to indicate that someone who is saved can be lost; but in order to place that reading on those scriptures, you have to take them in isolation and ignore all of the other scriptures that show it is God's work to keep us and His promise to secure us. Just as no man can keep himself holy by his own efforts, no man can keep himself saved by his own efforts. It is God that does both. But the Holiness people, the legalists who develop long lists of rules for church members to follow, who inspect the outward what they call "fruit" of believers and who see all sin as NOT being covered by Christ's blood, these people have created a gospel in which one must meet these standards or be lost forever.

The KJV does not help in that because it sometimes uses the word "damnation" when the Greek actually signifies "condemnation". And God condemning something you do is quite different from God damning you!

The fact is that once we are truly saved, we are secure. Our behavior does not impact our salvation following salvation, any more than it impacted our salvation prior to salvation. We were enemies of God (Romans 5:10) and abominable in His sight (1 Peter 4:3). Yet He sent His Son to die for us while we were yet in that condition. His love for us was despite our filthy rags and our abominable nature. The prodigal son did not clean up and return home, he went there in fear and trembling in the rags he possessed. Yet the father "saw him while he was yet afar off" (Luke 15:20) and "moved with compassion" didn't stand there waiting for the raggedy, stinking son to come up to him; no, the father RAN to that filthy wretch and hugged him tight and kissed him and called for clean clothing and His own ring. That ring, my friends, signified that all that the Father had was now that son's. We ... are that prodigal son. God is that Father. And all that He has He gives us because we are in Christ. Nothing we can do will change that. And having once been away from the Father, nothing could ever induce us to leave again. As the disciples said, when Jesus asked them if they would leave Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life." (John 6:68) Exactly. There is no place to go for those who are Christ's, for they recognize that in Christ they have everything and they trust Him with all that they have.

So, is personal righteousness, holy behavior, not important? We’ll examine that in part 2.
Jesus words differ from your scenario. He assures all at John 15:10-14--that in order to remain his friend and remain in his love one MUST obey him. Just like he must obey his Father to remain in his love.
Any can be told they are true Christians, that doesn't make it truth. Beware the ear ticklers with words like-YOU ARE SAVED--he does not have a clue who will be saved, only in theory not in reality. 1) He cannot read anothers heart. 2) He has never seen a single name written in Gods book of life. 3) he has no idea who will endure until their end=living now in this satan ruled system doing Jesus' Fathers will over self( Matt 10:22, Matt 7:21)
There is a simple test to see if ones teachers have Jesus= Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God=OT-NT, 1540 pages of utterances give or take. Thus the teachers who listened to Jesus-WITHOUT FAIL teach every utterance from God to the flock. It never stops.
These believe they are saved=Matt 7:21-23--But those words from Jesus is judgement scenario. It shows no matter what one thinks they do for Jesus out of their love for him, if they work iniquity=(practice a sin or willfull sin,) they will hear those words from Jesus.= Get away from me you who work iniquity i must confess i never even knew you.
I don't mean to drag ones hopes down, but God only accepts worship in spirit and truth( John 4:22-24)--That is why its ultra important to learn every utterance from God. Few on earth bother, once they are told-YOU ARE SAVED, they believe it and do little to obey Jesus.
 
You are wrong, @servant1.

Our faith is not based on our works, not even for the smallest bit.
If it were, we would be the most deplorable of people.
Even our best works are riddled with sin, so they would justly condemn us to hell.

But thank God, we don't have to do works to "buy" (or add to) our salvation.
Salvation is a free gift, and we do good works from a thankful heart!

For‭ other‭ foundation‭ can‭‭ no man‭ lay‭‭ than‭ that is laid‭‭, which‭ is‭‭ Jesus‭ Christ‭.‭
‭Now‭ if any man‭ build‭‭ upon‭ this‭ foundation‭ gold‭, silver‭, precious‭ stones‭, wood‭, hay‭, stubble‭;‭
‭Every man’s‭ work‭ shall be made‭‭ manifest‭: for‭ the day‭ shall declare‭‭ it, because‭ it shall be revealed‭‭ by‭ fire‭; and‭ the fire‭ shall try‭‭ every man’s‭ work‭ of what sort‭ it is‭‭.‭
‭If any man’s‭ work‭ abide‭‭ which‭ he hath built‭‭ thereupon, he shall receive‭‭ a reward‭.‭
‭If any man’s‭ work‭ shall be burned‭‭, he shall suffer loss‭‭: but‭ he himself‭ shall be saved‭‭; yet‭ so‭ as‭ by‭ fire‭.‭

(1 Cor. 3:11-15)
 
No, Jesus' words did not differ from the scenario one bit. You just ripped them out of context and buttressed your already held blasphemous notion that you have to work for salvation. How many works are enough? Quantify them. When will you know you've done enough? How will you know you've done enough? What measure do you have to know? Is it one work? Six hundred works? Doing your best (this one's laughable)? Let's say for the sake of argument that you do perfect works all the days of all of your life except you have just one bad hour. You go through the streets in road rage, cursing. You look at women the wrong way. And then you have a heart attack and die. Did your previous works outdo that one day, even though you "died in your sins"? Surely you're not dense enough to think you don't sin, but maybe you are. Many are after all.

You have roughly 60,000 thoughts a day. Do you think you have just one percent of them reigned in? Just one percent of those run amok is 600 thoughts. That's six hundred potential sins per day even, and perhaps especially if they are but mere foolishness. Those are 600 sins just in your head if you are just accounting for one percent of your daily thoughts. One percent. We haven't even got around to what you do, what you search for, what you eat, how much you eat, who you looked at, the fabrics on your back, much less, you failing at keeping just a handful of the Ten Commandments.

You've fallen into the error of cobbling a tale together on happily selected verses to build a narrative to what you were taught or what you sought. Then, you mixed it with human pride. Either way, it's a dead-end road that has far more in common with false religions such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. That's not the straight and narrow that you think it is. Works religion is what every other nasty religion on this earth teaches and you'd do well not to taint Christ's perfected work on the cross with your nasty deeds. Christ alone is the straight and narrow. No other dogma, religion, or creed teaches that bridge from divinity to humanity, and they'll all die for it. They will try to walk across that deep and doomed chasm and will fall right in absent that bridge.

It's interesting that our Lord mentions the people in the Bible, the very famous "Lord Lord" crowd (who you somehow referenced without a tinge of irony) who will stand before Him and boast in what they did on the earth as a buttress to their deserved entry into Heaven. He goes on to tell them to not only depart from Him but that He never even knew them. Who do you think that's talking about? It isn't Atheists. They don't say Lord, Lord anything unless they are cussing Him out in some edgy Reddit or Tik Tok rant. It's religious people. It's the "but looky at what all I did to earn favor" crowd.

In Matthew 7 and the chapter before that the Lord is talking about works and those who judge incorrectly. He talks about those who pray out in the open making sure that everyone sees them and reacts accordingly. He talks about those who give to the needy in front of others. Think people who go on Facebook and hand wads of cash to homeless people while a camera is jammed in their face. Look at all those great works they are doing! They got their pat on the back by the world. They got their reward. The entire chapter is about works in front of men in particular. The boasters. The proud. And then the very next chapter he goes on to condemn those very people to eternal death because their salvation was hinged on those very things. Does that not sound like you? Like the multitudes before you? Don't be among them. It's a long line and crowded room of do-gooders who will just wind up dead and quarantined forever.

So, for every time you pull the James 2:26, I'd rebut you with Isaiah 64:6. And really, you could do this ad nauseam all day long with whatever verse/verses that are plucked out, and it's precisely why so many think there are so many contradictions in the Bible. Heaps of onlookers have this misgiving watching religious one liner types go back and forth: but here it says this thing, but over here it says that thing, contradictions galore. And this is why I'd never teach nor argue in that manner. Because they look contradictory, and they are if you go on just those one-liners. Full counsel of God, contextualized, even if it gets tedious, every single time without question.

Your worldview inescapably cheapens the crucifixion to an odd cosmic ritualistic singular event. You give reverence to Christ, and you may even get really emotional when you think on the cross, but you don't believe in the power of what was completed on that cross. The Father needs or demands your help getting yourself across the finish line and onto the streets of gold as you nudge His Son off to the sidelines. His Son died for your sins, but no not really since you, some no name, faceless rando needs to launch a full effort against the vortex of death and put yourself on equal footing with Christ in bridging the divine and the flesh. Reduce self. Amplify Christ. But your lot happily turns that on its ear and it's all you and Christ may be mentioned at dinner or when you're talking about homosexuals. It's the most blasphemous thought I can imagine, and you'll pay for it dearly and eternally. Your debt will never be satisfied.
 
You are wrong, @servant1.

Our faith is not based on our works, not even for the smallest bit.
If it were, we would be the most deplorable of people.
Even our best works are riddled with sin, so they would justly condemn us to hell.

But thank God, we don't have to do works to "buy" (or add to) our salvation.
Salvation is a free gift, and we do good works from a thankful heart!

For‭ other‭ foundation‭ can‭‭ no man‭ lay‭‭ than‭ that is laid‭‭, which‭ is‭‭ Jesus‭ Christ‭.‭
‭Now‭ if any man‭ build‭‭ upon‭ this‭ foundation‭ gold‭, silver‭, precious‭ stones‭, wood‭, hay‭, stubble‭;‭
‭Every man’s‭ work‭ shall be made‭‭ manifest‭: for‭ the day‭ shall declare‭‭ it, because‭ it shall be revealed‭‭ by‭ fire‭; and‭ the fire‭ shall try‭‭ every man’s‭ work‭ of what sort‭ it is‭‭.‭
‭If any man’s‭ work‭ abide‭‭ which‭ he hath built‭‭ thereupon, he shall receive‭‭ a reward‭.‭
‭If any man’s‭ work‭ shall be burned‭‭, he shall suffer loss‭‭: but‭ he himself‭ shall be saved‭‭; yet‭ so‭ as‭ by‭ fire‭.‭

(1 Cor. 3:11-15)
Faith without works is dead. James 2:26
 
Faith without works is dead. James 2:26
Exactly: therefore true faith will inevitably bring forth" the works that God has foreordained and prepared for us to do." (Ephesians 2:10) But it is His work in us that leads us to these things. They are the fruit of salvation, not any part of the root of salvation. The second you suggest that a person must do anything other than simply call upon the name of the Lord --as it says in numerous places, including Romans 10:13 (and maybe I'll write an article on what it means to call upon the name of the Lord)-- then you have maybe an adversity but certainly claimed for Christ's finished work is not quite finished. They're claiming that our salvation depends in some part on ourselves. I suggest you that other than believing and trusting Christ with our salvation, everything necessary has been done on the Cross. And as Paul makes clear in his epistle to the Galatians, just as we acquired salvation, we also keep it: simply by faith in Christ and His finished work. Yes, faith will produce works, those works are produced by salvation. The works do not in any way play a part in the salvation: they are merely --and gloriously-- its fruit.
 
Exactly: therefore true faith will inevitably bring forth" the works that God has foreordained and prepared for us to do." (Ephesians 2:10) But it is His work in us that leads us to these things. They are the fruit of salvation, not any part of the root of salvation. The second you suggest that a person must do anything other than simply call upon the name of the Lord --as it says in numerous places, including Romans 10:13 (and maybe I'll write an article on what it means to call upon the name of the Lord)-- then you have maybe an adversity but certainly claimed for Christ's finished work is not quite finished. They're claiming that our salvation depends in some part on ourselves. I suggest you that other than believing and trusting Christ with our salvation, everything necessary has been done on the Cross. And as Paul makes clear in his epistle to the Galatians, just as we acquired salvation, we also keep it: simply by faith in Christ and His finished work. Yes, faith will produce works, those works are produced by salvation. The works do not in any way play a part in the salvation: they are merely --and gloriously-- its fruit.
Actually At Joel 2:21-22 It says-Those who call on the name YHWH will be saved. Quoted at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13, but in the altered versions of Gods bible LORD is found at Joel, thus lord is at both NT spots. This misleads one to think-lord=Jesus at Acts 2:21-Heb--but it isn't, it is his Father whose name needs to be called upon. Jerome removed Gods name from Gods bible, he had no right. God put his name in OT nearly 6800 spots because he wants his name there. It misleads to have it removed and replaced with titles as i shown early in this paragraph.
 
Actually At Joel 2:21-22 It says-Those who call on the name YHWH will be saved. Quoted at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13, but in the altered versions of Gods bible LORD is found at Joel, thus lord is at both NT spots. This misleads one to think-lord=Jesus at Acts 2:21-Heb--but it isn't, it is his Father whose name needs to be called upon. Jerome removed Gods name from Gods bible, he had no right. God put his name in OT nearly 6800 spots because he wants his name there. It misleads to have it removed and replaced with titles as i shown early in this paragraph.
Actually my friend, the verse you want is not Joel 2:21-22 but Joel 2:32. Anyway, the Hebrews believe that the four-letter name for God (YHWH) which appears in their scriptures, is too holy to pronounce. To respect that, reputable translators substitute the word LORD (written in all capitals to avoid confusion with Lord which translates the word adonai) for the name YHWH. So, Jerome removed nothing. He --and others-- simply respected what had been done since the Hebrews first had written Scripture, which began through the hand of Moses.

Jewish scribes of the Middle Ages (incidentally the descendants of those who rejected Christ) added vowel points to the Hebrew YHWH, using as I said above the vowels from the Hebrew word for Lord, which is adonai. Tyndale transcribed the YHWH using Latin letters into JHVH. But in English the first letter which was pronounced as Y in Latin was pronounced according to the local language as J. Then, since JHVH had no vowels, he added in the Masoretic vowels. Thus the English for God became Jehovah, a word that never appears in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. In fact I believe it first began to be used about 700 years ago in Tyndale's Bible and in the Geneva Bible. It also appeared in the King James Bible, but only four times in the Old Testament. So, Jehovah was never the name given by God. It was created by English translators in the middle ages.

The word LORD, in that capitalized form, is the accepted translation of the Hebrew YHWH and, in good translations, is never confused with the translation of Adonai, which is always rendered Lord.

As to the quotations in the New Testament in Acts 2:20 and Romans 10: 13, they are not translated from the ancient Hebrew manuscripts but from the ancient Greek manuscripts. In the Greek, the word appears as kurios, which simply means lord or master. This is the word that Luke used in Acts and Paul used in Romans when referring to the Joel verse. The translators have done no injustice by accurately rendering the word as Luke and Paul wrote it. Your argument has to be with Luke and the apostle Paul, not with them.
 
Actually my friend, the verse you want is not Joel 2:21-22 but Joel 2:32. Anyway, the Hebrews believe that the four-letter name for God (YHWH) which appears in their scriptures, is too holy to pronounce. To respect that, reputable translators substitute the word LORD (written in all capitals to avoid confusion with Lord which translates the word adonai) for the name YHWH. So, Jerome removed nothing. He --and others-- simply respected what had been done since the Hebrews first had written Scripture, which began through the hand of Moses.

Jewish scribes of the Middle Ages (incidentally the descendants of those who rejected Christ) added vowel points to the Hebrew YHWH, using as I said above the vowels from the Hebrew word for Lord, which is adonai. Tyndale transcribed the YHWH using Latin letters into JHVH. But in English the first letter which was pronounced as Y in Latin was pronounced according to the local language as J. Then, since JHVH had no vowels, he added in the Masoretic vowels. Thus the English for God became Jehovah, a word that never appears in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. In fact I believe it first began to be used about 700 years ago in Tyndale's Bible and in the Geneva Bible. It also appeared in the King James Bible, but only four times in the Old Testament. So, Jehovah was never the name given by God. It was created by English translators in the middle ages.

The word LORD, in that capitalized form, is the accepted translation of the Hebrew YHWH and, in good translations, is never confused with the translation of Adonai, which is always rendered Lord.

As to the quotations in the New Testament in Acts 2:20 and Romans 10: 13, they are not translated from the ancient Hebrew manuscripts but from the ancient Greek manuscripts. In the Greek, the word appears as kurios, which simply means lord or master. This is the word that Luke used in Acts and Paul used in Romans when referring to the Joel verse. The translators have done no injustice by accurately rendering the word as Luke and Paul wrote it. Your argument has to be with Luke and the apostle Paul, not with them.


Pastor Adrian we are so very blessed to have you here, thank you for explaining this! I have to print this and not lose it.
 
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