Goodboy
Just waiting for the Rapture at this point!
Predestination
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Because God exists outside of time and knows the future he can speak about the future as if it already happened. The word foreknow in Romans 8:29, means he knew it before it happened. So as God foreknew who would believe and accept his free gift of salvation, that is who he is referring to in Romans 8:29 and Romans 8:30
It is clear from the bible that belief is what is required for salvation. For anyone who does not agree with that statement, I have listed some verses below.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Notice in Acts 16:30 the question asked was “What must I do”, not what must God do or what must be done. The answer to what someone must do to be saved is believe.
So if belief is required for salvation that would mean it is something that you must do. No one can believe anything for you, not even God. If God were to force you to believe something, it would no longer be your belief, but what God forces you to believe. Just like how we do not make anyone accountable for what they believe if they have been brainwashed.
So if belief for salvation is something you must do as the bible clearly states, then it cannot be something God has done or is doing. Hence, predestination is not referring to God choosing who will be saved, but expressing what he will do for those who are saved.
If predestination is true for salvation, then what is the purpose of sharing the Gospel which the bible tells us is extremely important. Please don’t answer that we are obeying God. While that could surly be a motivator, it would not be the purpose. While a child may cut the grass in obedience to their parents and that may be their only reason for doing it, that is not the purpose of cutting the grass. The purpose is so the lawn looks nice.
As far as I know, all true Christians will say that you must admit you are a sinner and believe in and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to be saved and that is the only requirement. So if predestination is true for salvation you will be lying to anyone you share with that is not predestined.
Predestination for salvation would mean that Jesus only died for some men (those who are predestined). However, Romans 5:18 below says that Jesus died for all men.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The belief that God (The Father) selects who will be saved, takes away the credit that Jesus deserves. Based on Acts 4:12 below, God wants Jesus to get the credit.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
The whole idea of predestination for salvation conflicts with scripture right from the beginning. Most Christians would agree that God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden for the sole purpose of giving Adam and Eve choice or volition. In fact, if God had not done that Adam, Eve and all their descendants would have ended up in Heaven.
God does not force us to believe or to love him, nor do we want that from others. Would you be happy if your kids loved you just because you forced them to? Aren’t you much happier if your child does something like clean their room or wash the dishes without you forcing them to. So the same is true of God and he wants you to choose to love him and choose to believe and be saved!
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What about Ephesians 1:4 above that says God chose us? As God is outside of time he did choose us but because we chose him. It’s like a marriage. If I asked you if you chose your wife, you would say yes. If I asked your wife if she chose you, she would also say yes.
Person 1 Says - I believe in predestination for salvation as God has chosen who will be saved and we have no part in it. There is nothing we can do to gain salvation or to lose it, as it is all up to God.
Person 2 Says – I have gone witnessing with you and you do not really believe in predestination for salvation, you only think you do.
Person 1 Says – Why would you say that?
Person 2 Says – Well when we go witnessing together and someone asks you “What must I do to be saved?” you tell them “Believe in and accept what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross”. If you truly believed in predestination for salvation, you would tell them “Nothing, as God has done all that is required and chosen who will be saved”.
Either you make the decision (believe) yourself or God makes it for you. When you tell someone that they have to believe, you are telling them that they make the decision. That is not the belief in predestination for salvation.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
In 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 above it states that God wants all men to be saved. So if salvation is based solely on God’s will, then that would mean that everyone is saved.
Goodboy
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Because God exists outside of time and knows the future he can speak about the future as if it already happened. The word foreknow in Romans 8:29, means he knew it before it happened. So as God foreknew who would believe and accept his free gift of salvation, that is who he is referring to in Romans 8:29 and Romans 8:30
It is clear from the bible that belief is what is required for salvation. For anyone who does not agree with that statement, I have listed some verses below.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Notice in Acts 16:30 the question asked was “What must I do”, not what must God do or what must be done. The answer to what someone must do to be saved is believe.
So if belief is required for salvation that would mean it is something that you must do. No one can believe anything for you, not even God. If God were to force you to believe something, it would no longer be your belief, but what God forces you to believe. Just like how we do not make anyone accountable for what they believe if they have been brainwashed.
So if belief for salvation is something you must do as the bible clearly states, then it cannot be something God has done or is doing. Hence, predestination is not referring to God choosing who will be saved, but expressing what he will do for those who are saved.
If predestination is true for salvation, then what is the purpose of sharing the Gospel which the bible tells us is extremely important. Please don’t answer that we are obeying God. While that could surly be a motivator, it would not be the purpose. While a child may cut the grass in obedience to their parents and that may be their only reason for doing it, that is not the purpose of cutting the grass. The purpose is so the lawn looks nice.
As far as I know, all true Christians will say that you must admit you are a sinner and believe in and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to be saved and that is the only requirement. So if predestination is true for salvation you will be lying to anyone you share with that is not predestined.
Predestination for salvation would mean that Jesus only died for some men (those who are predestined). However, Romans 5:18 below says that Jesus died for all men.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The belief that God (The Father) selects who will be saved, takes away the credit that Jesus deserves. Based on Acts 4:12 below, God wants Jesus to get the credit.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
The whole idea of predestination for salvation conflicts with scripture right from the beginning. Most Christians would agree that God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden for the sole purpose of giving Adam and Eve choice or volition. In fact, if God had not done that Adam, Eve and all their descendants would have ended up in Heaven.
God does not force us to believe or to love him, nor do we want that from others. Would you be happy if your kids loved you just because you forced them to? Aren’t you much happier if your child does something like clean their room or wash the dishes without you forcing them to. So the same is true of God and he wants you to choose to love him and choose to believe and be saved!
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
What about Ephesians 1:4 above that says God chose us? As God is outside of time he did choose us but because we chose him. It’s like a marriage. If I asked you if you chose your wife, you would say yes. If I asked your wife if she chose you, she would also say yes.
Person 1 Says - I believe in predestination for salvation as God has chosen who will be saved and we have no part in it. There is nothing we can do to gain salvation or to lose it, as it is all up to God.
Person 2 Says – I have gone witnessing with you and you do not really believe in predestination for salvation, you only think you do.
Person 1 Says – Why would you say that?
Person 2 Says – Well when we go witnessing together and someone asks you “What must I do to be saved?” you tell them “Believe in and accept what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross”. If you truly believed in predestination for salvation, you would tell them “Nothing, as God has done all that is required and chosen who will be saved”.
Either you make the decision (believe) yourself or God makes it for you. When you tell someone that they have to believe, you are telling them that they make the decision. That is not the belief in predestination for salvation.
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
In 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 above it states that God wants all men to be saved. So if salvation is based solely on God’s will, then that would mean that everyone is saved.
Goodboy
