New Evidence That Demands a Verdict Video by Josh McDowell

[Goodboy]

I found this video on YouTube by Josh McDowell which I watched. He has a book out, but this might be helpful to share with someone who does not like to read like me. LOL! If you are not aware, Josh went out to prove that Christianity was not true and ended up getting saved.

New Evidence That Demands a Verdict - Josh McDowell

Here is where you can get his book if you want it.
Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World

God Bless!
Goodboy

 

[Margery]

I have his original 2 books and I still kept them- they are valuable reference books but it is heavy reading to plow thru. I've done it but it is easier for people nowadays to get things on video and especially YT.

 

[Batman]

I have both 1 & 2 in paperback. The evidence seems obvious to me.

 

[Quantrill]

So similar to the book, "Who Moved The Stone" by Frank Morison. He, a reporter I believe, set out to disprove the Resurrection. Even had the title of his book to reflect that. Yet later had to change it to what it now is.

One thing he did understand before he became a Christian, was that if he could disprove the Resurrection, he could destroy the Christian faith. And in reality, that is true. If any can find the bones of Jesus Christ somewhere, you have destroyed the Christian faith.

Strange isn't it? How sometimes, the greatest enemies of the Christian faith become great followers of Jesus Christ. Think of Paul.

Quantrill

 

[mattfivefour]

Amen! Hirsi Ali, Malcolm Muggeridge, CS Lewis, and Lee Strobel are just a few of the many other agnostics and atheists in our day who found that the Bible is true, God is real and Jesus Christ is the only way to Him. All, like each one of us, trophies of God's grace!

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Both volumes are published in one book, and the most recent has some updates. The hardback is very good quality and will stand up to years of use and perusal.

It makes a very nice present

This book would be really good as a Confirmation text. Children getting confirmed need to know not only what they believe, but also why, what evidence there is, and how to defend it. After Confirmation, the child would then have a useful, interesting, hard-copy reference, which is good, even as an adult, and can't be altered or taken down from the net

This book is a good coffee table book because people will look, and conversations get going . . .

This book is a great bathroom book (if you keep reading material in there)

 

[Quantrill]

Also, Josh McDowell's book 'More Than a Carpenter' is a small paperback which makes a great give away book when witnessing to someone. As does Morison's 'Who Moved The Stone'.

I used to try and have several of each for that purpose. Can get them used pretty cheap still.

Quantrill

 

[janeelaine]

one of the comments on the vid itself, concerns me:

"What an utter disappointment. From all the hype I've read I came here expecting this guy to change my mind or at least make me consider it. I figured he would at least make me think but he just regurgitates the same things I've heard from every other christian and apologist. If this guy is really one of the world's leading apologists then itsno wonder there are so many atheists."

i havent watched the vid, but as someone who was not easily convinced myself that God is real and such... i can resonate with such a comment, without even watching the video.

too often there are vids that claim "have your athiest grandma watch this!"... only to find that yet again the video merely preaches to the existing choir. as someone who found it hard to believe in the Bible, im familiar with what makes unbelievers simply roll their eyes and move on.

it would be great to find a really convincing statement or video that gets EVERY skeptic/atheist feeling intrigued... but it appears this one is not it.

God, I pray that anyone who doesn't think they can rely on You, but truly would if they could find a reason to do so, will in time. I pray that the little part of them that hopes You DO see their every move and care for them, is "watered" in some way every day until they start to realize their wall of denial is starting to crumble. I pray for influences to enter their lives that soften their hardness against You, to the point that they remember really why they doubt you, and start to talk to You, even if it's only a few words at first.

I pray that Your wisdom hits their hearts in such a way that they want more of it, instead of pushing it away again.

 

[Margery]

it would be great to find a really convincing statement or video that gets EVERY skeptic/atheist feeling intrigued... but it appears this one is not it.

There are no such videos/articles/books or statements that could intrigue or convince every skeptic or atheist. If there were they'd be the stock in trade of all of us who have unsaved loved ones.

Jesus said this in Matt 7:13-14 here in the NKJV 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It's not in the things - it's in the act of the Holy Spirit working thru people, the Bible (never underestimate the power of the Word of God), random encounters with books, articles, videos. And there has to be a willing heart to hear, a heart that longs for God. A heart that is being changed by the power of God. Some will, many won't be saved. God gives each person the right to say no to Him.

You can't talk an unwilling person into anything. People are stubborn and often the only thing that changes their minds is prayer. You never know if the person is kicking against the nudging of God, like Saul kicking against the pricking of Jesus in his spirit. They can sound pretty stubborn.

George and I prayed for his dad for decades. At the ripe old age of 103 less than a week before he died, he told me he was frightened of death and I was able to quickly lead him to the Lord.

If you listen to the One For Israel ministry ads for example they just run Jewish believers in Christ- how they found Messiah. Every single person is different. The common thread is a heart that longs for truth, longs for God. Somehow they find Jesus and God calls each one in a unique way, just like the rest of us Gentile believers.

The person who commented under the video wasn't convinced. Some people never are. I spent most of my life trying to convince my father to turn to Christ. My mother had witnessed to him for 15 years and a few months of their marriage before she died. He died in 2018. I had multiple opportunities to share Christ with him as did other people. Sometimes he was more polite than others in his refusals.

He used the MAID program here in Canada for assisted suicide. I spoke with him the night before he died, and tried one last time. He politely refused, and went on to talk about the best cuts of beef to buy and other trivia. The next day my step mother, step brother and step sister were with him and he was talking about the history of WW2 when the dr was a few minutes late to his appointed death. My dad started in on how annoying it was when people were late, he was impatient to die on his schedule.

What I look back on now and it comforts me is the multiple times and ways that my father had a chance to turn to God and refused. He is away from the presence of the God he rejected on multiple occasions. He is in the place of his own choice. He had plenty of chances. If he wanted to, he was able- he had more chances than most ever get.

It comes down to free will - God allows us the freedom to choose. We have a lifetime to do it. Some lives are shorter, some longer but essentially we have this time on earth to choose, and when death comes, our choice to avoid God becomes final.

The flip side of that is that whenever we choose Christ, salvation is final. We can't do anything that undoes that choice. It's a wonderful safeguard. You could lose your mind, deny Christ under torture, wander into all kinds of error, but once you are saved, you are part of God's family and nothing can pluck you out of His Hand.

 

[Margery]

John 10:28 KJV Jesus is talking here about those who turn to Him

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[mattfivefour]

one of the comments on the vid itself, concerns me:

"What an utter disappointment. From all the hype I've read I came here expecting this guy to change my mind or at least make me consider it. I figured he would at least make me think but he just regurgitates the same things I've heard from every other christian and apologist. If this guy is really one of the world's leading apologists then itsno wonder there are so many atheists."

i havent watched the vid, but as someone who was not easily convinced myself that God is real and such... i can resonate with such a comment, without even watching the video.

too often there are vids that claim "have your athiest grandma watch this!"... only to find that yet again the video merely preaches to the existing choir. as someone who found it hard to believe in the Bible, im familiar with what makes unbelievers simply roll their eyes and move on.

it would be great to find a really convincing statement or video that gets EVERY skeptic/atheist feeling intrigued... but it appears this one is not it.

God, I pray that anyone who doesn't think they can rely on You, but truly would if they could find a reason to do so, will in time. I pray that the little part of them that hopes You DO see their every move and care for them, is "watered" in some way every day until they start to realize their wall of denial is starting to crumble. I pray for influences to enter their lives that soften their hardness against You, to the point that they remember really why they doubt you, and start to talk to You, even if it's only a few words at first.

I pray that Your wisdom hits their hearts in such a way that they want more of it, instead of pushing it away again.

With the greatest respect, may I suggest it would be good to watch the video for yourself rather than take the word of somebody who didn't like it? They may have been predisposed not to like it. Or they may be absolutely correct. The only way to know for sure is to watch it yourself. Now, if you do watch it yourself and are similarly disappointed then, unfortunately, it's just one more video to add to all the others that you have found disappointing. And that will help us anticipate objections of agnostics and atheists who may watch it themselves. On the other hand, you might find this one convincing, which similarly would help us.

Anyway, at some point you who, as you said, at once time were "not easily convinced” yourself, finally became convinced of the reality of God and the truth of the Gospel. I would very much like to know what it was the convinced you. Was it a process? A moment? The result of others reaching out to you? And how? Or were you reaching out in search of God? Perhaps the way you came to Christ might help others who seek to evangelize among atheists and agnostics be more effective in their evangelizing. I believe your testimony would not only glorify God but be a blessing to the rest of us.

(If you do decide to share your testimony, we have a section of the forum just for testimonies.)

 

[Goodboy]

one of the comments on the vid itself, concerns me:

"What an utter disappointment. From all the hype I've read I came here expecting this guy to change my mind or at least make me consider it. I figured he would at least make me think but he just regurgitates the same things I've heard from every other christian and apologist. If this guy is really one of the world's leading apologists then itsno wonder there are so many atheists."

i havent watched the vid, but as someone who was not easily convinced myself that God is real and such... i can resonate with such a comment, without even watching the video.

too often there are vids that claim "have your athiest grandma watch this!"... only to find that yet again the video merely preaches to the existing choir. as someone who found it hard to believe in the Bible, im familiar with what makes unbelievers simply roll their eyes and move on.

it would be great to find a really convincing statement or video that gets EVERY skeptic/atheist feeling intrigued... but it appears this one is not it.

God, I pray that anyone who doesn't think they can rely on You, but truly would if they could find a reason to do so, will in time. I pray that the little part of them that hopes You DO see their every move and care for them, is "watered" in some way every day until they start to realize their wall of denial is starting to crumble. I pray for influences to enter their lives that soften their hardness against You, to the point that they remember really why they doubt you, and start to talk to You, even if it's only a few words at first.

I pray that Your wisdom hits their hearts in such a way that they want more of it, instead of pushing it away again.

There is no need to put anyone down that is trying to share the Gospel. God knows how to make himself real to everyone in different ways. I did not get saved until I was 28, however people had been sharing Jesus with me for years with no success. You know what it took? A coworker asked me one simple question of "Do You Go To Church" and said nothing else until I asked him questions. Now would you suggest that a good way to get someone saved is to ask them if they go to church and say nothing else? I know I would not suggest that, but that is what I needed. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks!

God Bless!

 

[Amethyst]

Now would you suggest that a good way to get someone saved is to ask them if they go to church and say nothing else? I know I would not suggest that, but that is what I needed.

THat's a great point.

 

[Eric Nicholas]

I was never an atheist because the proposition just always made me laugh in very irreverent ways at its structure. But when I was in my early twenties doing the mean street things if you can imagine that, I started trying to tear my faith down. That definitely didn't work. When you investigate atheism and other silly gods, and it doesn't take much, their fairy tale (which is what they accuse us of believing in) is so outrageous, it's just laughable. It doesn't even make me mad, it's just plain goofy and has zero explanatory power of any reality about us. I truly think atheism is a meme. We have literally everything on our side with a glorious Commander. Can't wait to serve as I'll be, once emerged from this chrysalis.

 

[mattfivefour]

i know... why do so many ppl here talk down to me?

the whole of your comment is to convince me of all this. im well aware.



obvious... i was making a different point.

im so done with this group. you guys can just hawk at people all you want but im out of here.

@janeelaine, please understand that nobody was trying to "hawk" at you. It certainly wasn't my intention. And if I came across that way, I truly apologize. I was simply reacting to the fact that, regardless of your point, you stated you had not watched the Josh McDowell video but, based on one particular comment, you came to a conclusion about it. Having said that, I reread your post, and can see you based your conclusion on the fact that obviously one of the people who viewed the video was not convinced by it and you were hoping that there would be a video that would cause any unbeliever to be intrigued. This conclusion clearly did not require viewing the video to arrive at. So my opening comment, although logical, was off base. And again I apologize for that.

My main point, however, was to learn from you what convinced you to become a believer. As I noted, you had written that you yourself were "not easily convinced." Therefore, I thought if you could share your testimony with us as to what it was that convinced you to become a believer, we could learn something that would help us when dealing with the very people you said you would like to see brought to faith.

In no way was I attempting to criticize or belittle you. And if my post came across in that way, I again deeply apologize. I assure you it was not my intention. One of the things I dislike about interacting with people online is that tone is missing, along with all of the subtle cues we get from face to face contact. I think this is one of the reasons unintentional disagreements arise. I found it a lot easier to pastor in a brick-and-mortar church than it was to moderate the previous major forum I moderated for years, or even this forum which I now lead. So I hope you can forgive any unintended slights and stick around. Despite the difficulties and weaknesses of online communication, I find this assembly of believers to be a genuine Christian fellowship. Not perfect, by any means; but sincerely desirous of one another's best interests, motivated by love ... of Christ, and of one another. As I said, I hope you decide to stick around.

 

[Margery]

i know... why do so many ppl here talk down to me?

the whole of your comment is to convince me of all this. im well aware.



obvious... i was making a different point.

im so done with this group. you guys can just hawk at people all you want but im out of here.

I'm so sorry I didn't understand your post. I'm afraid I read it that you were wondering if there were any really good resources to convince atheists, and I thought maybe you might be facing that in your own family. I was hoping to comfort and encourage you.

I certainly didn't mean to talk down to you. Blame it on me not reading your post carefully enough.

I hope you don't leave.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

There is no need to put anyone down that is trying to share the Gospel. God knows how to make himself real to everyone in different ways. I did not get saved until I was 28, however people had been sharing Jesus with me for years with no success. You know what it took? A coworker asked me one simple question of "Do You Go To Church" and said nothing else until I asked him questions. Now would you suggest that a good way to get someone saved is to ask them if they go to church and say nothing else? I know I would not suggest that, but that is what I needed. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks!

God Bless!

Everyone is different, so everyone needs The Gospel presented in a way that he or she can understand. The Holy Ghost blesses one with the gift and miracle of saving faith.


I was saved at 3 in Molly's Sunday School class.

Part of what prepared me or reinforced my faith was my Maternal Grandmother teaching me Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep prayer, and what it really meant. She didn't pull any punches. Grandma provided a vivid description of Hell and the eternal torments there, so I learned about the eternal fire, brimstone, worm that never dies, utter darkness, stench, wailing, gnashing of teeth, etc. when I was 2 or 3 . . . I was and still am scared to death about Hell.

So very, very, very thankful that Jesus died and paid all the penalty for MY sins, so I don't have to go there.

It's never too soon for tender, young ears to hear the truth and horror about Hell. Forever is a very long time.

Scaring me with the detailed Biblical truth about Hell was absolutely the right thing for me. Warm, fuzzy, gentle, and glossing over/hiding the unpleasant truth of Hell wouldn't have worked on me.

Thank you, Grandma! And thank you, God, for giving Grandma the faith, wisdom, kindness, and love to tell me about both Heaven and Hell


When I was a teenager, I read Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth, and if I had still been unsaved and a "cultural Christian," that might have worked then, but I probably still would have needed a giant helping of fire and brimstone/Hell/fear to actually bring me to Saving Faith. The book did create an interest in studying eschatology


This is the version of the prayer Grandma taught me:

Now I lay me down to sleep
I pray The Lord my soul to keep
And if I die before I wake
I pray The Lord my soul to take.
In Jesus' Name, Amen.

I still say this prayer when I go to bed

 

[TCC]

I've known @janeelaine from before. And she has incredible debth. One of the most beautiful expressions of thought I've come across online. I don't always effectively grasp where others might be coming from. But I do resonate to a degree in where she was coming from. To me it seemed like she was interesteded in adding dimension to this thread. Ways also to consider outside the contours of whatever is in that video. In any event, I would love to see her stay. She is an incredible spirit in Him.

In relation to her point, I would just suggest that I am aware there are other resources, but the ones I am aware of can be considered in certain circles as some what gamey. If anyone is interested, I can provide a link to one that really resonates hugely with me in respect to Jane's point. That resource has taken some of the more commonly argued apologetics to be challenged at a whole new level. When I came upon it about a year ago, it was actually really refreshing because of how super down to earth it is.

I'm a fan of Candace Owens, but this particular channel took on some themes of Candace's concern that women all be instructed to be married with children. And as much as I would typically lean in with Candaces conservative instincts, I actually thought the atheist challenging her had more real world concepts in how God has fashioned His creative order. Now that likely sounds rather mind blowing. But I would just suggest that the angles the atheist channel was getting at contained very valuable considerations in contrast to what might become at some levels platforming a somewhat grandstanding of Christian idoelogy. And as some of my posts on our forum likely reflect, I tend to find concern in evangelicalism in how it can in many ways be somewhat emperialistic-ish.

So I just am hopeful that Jane knows she is among family here. I don't perceive that any forum member meant to talk down to her. From what I know of our forum I would not categorize it so much like that. But obviosuly I am not her. But I am so very hopeful Jane sticks around, because conversations that transcends common paradigms I believe can be very helpful to the family of God in general. As some might have gathered is a passion rather high on my list of important spiritual context in our day and age.

On one hand Christianity is under massive assault in our world. But on another hand, there is quite a bit of the church that contributes to its own undoing in places unfortunately. Some ways some believers like myself might be a bit more sensitive to those trends. In my case it was kind of by force. Because unfortunately I would have been very comfortable being status quo. Sometimes I actually envy it...lol. But, not by choice, I have been brought to see what I do (whether correct or incorrect). And I appreciate this forums hospitality to come along side consideration of that. And I hugely hope and pray that Jane might consider to be remain involved with our forum. Because I know I say some pretty edgy things. And a lot of them. And although we don't always see eye to eye, this forum has been engaged in real and genuine care to work with where I'm coming from. Even if some to much of it is pretty far off what is considered the typically proverbially beaten path.

So I just say this 1) to thank the forum for receiving the drama I might ...trend to be about. lol. But here at this moment in time, even more so 2) Hope that Jane considers to be a continuing part of our forum family. Because I know from experience, with detail, that she brings a spiritual wealth and beauty to the online community that is prize worthy. And Jane, you know how I feel toward your as a brother. And this forum well knows how outterlimits my views are and have proven to be a family willing to work toward understanding padantics from another universe (me). So may I be of some encouragement dear sister in hopes that you might find a home here to some degree. For the love God has upon your soul transcends where any of our weaknesses are. And I think your presence here in our forum is as much a favor upon the body of Christ as the body would in hopes to be toward you. In any event I wish you and your family an awesome Thanks Giving. And hope Jane we get to hang out with you before Christmas. Blessings.

 

[Margery]

I've known @janeelaine from before. And she has incredible debth. One of the most beautiful expressions of thought I've come across online. I don't always effectively grasp where others might be coming from. But I do resonate to a degree in where she was coming from. To me it seemed like she was interesteded in adding dimension to this thread. Ways also to consider outside the contours of whatever is in that video. In any event, I would love to see her stay. She is an incredible spirit in Him.

In relation to her point, I would just suggest that I am aware there are other resources, but the ones I am aware of can be considered in certain circles as some what gamey. If anyone is interested, I can provide a link to one that really resonates hugely with me in respect to Jane's point. That resource has taken some of the more commonly argued apologetics to be challenged at a whole new level. When I came upon it about a year ago, it was actually really refreshing because of how super down to earth it is.

I'm a fan of Candace Owens, but this particular channel took on some themes of Candace's concern that women all be instructed to be married with children. And as much as I would typically lean in with Candaces conservative instincts, I actually thought the atheist challenging her had more real world concepts in how God has fashioned His creative order. Now that likely sounds rather mind blowing. But I would just suggest that the angles the atheist channel was getting at contained very valuable considerations in contrast to what might become at some levels platforming a somewhat grandstanding of Christian idoelogy. And as some of my posts on our forum likely reflect, I tend to find concern in evangelicalism in how it can in many ways be somewhat emperialistic-ish.

So I just am hopeful that Jane knows she is among family here. I don't perceive that any forum member meant to talk down to her. From what I know of our forum I would not categorize it so much like that. But obviosuly I am not her. But I am so very hopeful Jane sticks around, because conversations that transcends common paradigms I believe can be very helpful to the family of God in general. As some might have gathered is a passion rather high on my list of important spiritual context in our day and age.

On one hand Christianity is under massive assault in our world. But on another hand, there is quite a bit of the church that contributes to its own undoing in places unfortunately. Some ways some believers like myself might be a bit more sensitive to those trends. In my case it was kind of by force. Because unfortunately I would have been very comfortable being status quo. Sometimes I actually envy it...lol. But, not by choice, I have been brought to see what I do (whether correct or incorrect). And I appreciate this forums hospitality to come along side consideration of that. And I hugely hope and pray that Jane might consider to be involved with our forum. Because I know I say some pretty edgy things. And a lot of them. And although we don't always see eye to eye, this forum has been engaged in real and genuine care to work with where I'm coming from. Even if some to much of it is pretty far off what is considered the typically proverbially beaten path.

So I just say this 1) to thank the forum for receiving the drama I might...lol. But here at this moment in time, even more so 2) Hope that Jane considers to be a part of our forum family. Because I know from experience, with detail, that she brings a spiritual wealth and beauty to the online community that is prize worthy. And Jane, you know how I feel toward your as a brother. And this forum well knows how outterlimits my views are and have proven to be a family willing to work toward understanding padantics from another universe (me). So may I be of some encouragement dear sister in hopes that you might find a home here to some degree. For the love God has upon your soul transcends where any of our weaknesses are. And I think your presence here in our forum is as much a favor upon the body of Christ as the body would in hopes to be toward you. In any event I wish you and your family an awesome Thanks Giving. And hope Jane we get to hang out with you before Christmas. Blessings.

It's so hard getting to know people online. And it's so rough that the community of the JDF forums closed, because you built trust and understanding with each other so you pretty much know where each one is coming from. You have a long history of praying each other thru, of previous conversations where you got to know the finer nuances that each person brings. I agree with you and hope she comes back, and that all the ones from the JDF forums stay and build relationships here, as well as renew the old friendships. It's bound to have some rough and bumpy bits at times simply due to the built in problems with online communication.

 

[TCC]

There is no need to put anyone down that is trying to share the Gospel. God knows how to make himself real to everyone in different ways. I did not get saved until I was 28, however people had been sharing Jesus with me for years with no success. You know what it took? A coworker asked me one simple question of "Do You Go To Church" and said nothing else until I asked him questions. Now would you suggest that a good way to get someone saved is to ask them if they go to church and say nothing else? I know I would not suggest that, but that is what I needed. As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks!

God Bless!

Thanks brother. I was saved at my drug dealers house. After we partied all night, while still over at his pad loaded. I prayer..."God if what I have read in pamphlets about you is real, please reveal yourself to me." I went to sleep on his couch. Or floor I think..lol. The next day I woke up believing. I don't think that is supposed to happen...lol. But I can't deny that it did. Blessings.