LightOfMyLife
Well-known
Jesus Is Returning Sooner Than You Think
Are You Ready? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-d64SWYYw*t=2779s
Are You Ready? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-d64SWYYw*t=2779s
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Jack Hibbs-What Your Church Never Told You About The End Times?
- Thread starter LightOfMyLife
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TCC
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He makes a good point about eminency. Personally, I don't really subscribe to eminency as a doctrine. But i like how Jack saw it from the Son/Father relationship view. So does that metaphor transfer to that degree like that? Christ said on earth He did not know the day or hour of when the world would be transformed into the eternal state. I don't think that is necessarily true about the rapture. But whatever Christ did not know on earth, He probably knows now because He gave John Revelation from "the Father," while He Himself was back in heaven. And probably knows. Could Jesus choose not to know? Yes. Amen. Like i said i like that. I don't think it is fair to say, "therefore eminency." But i do think it is something we can consider.
The reason i don't believe in eminency is i see in Rev 12 the rapture at that time. Not before. Not after. But does that mean that Christ may not choose to not know even in heaven? Nope. Which is why its so cool. Love it.
I just believe that because of the baton pass from gentile to Jew "age of focus," that only happens once. I don't believe in a gap theory or much of one. So to me its the time at the exchange. When the church stops being His witness, and Israel starts becoming one again. If we don't see that about Rev 12, then yeah it would seem eminent. And if that is ok for Christ to maybe not want to know...maybe its ok we may not much either. Amen.So the backdrop thought here is i did see the movie that JD Farag and Hibbs did together about the rapture. They never gave really the evidence, but it was a very romantic way to demonstrate Christ's return. It is edifying even if it might not have produced evidence it said it had. And i am actually ok with that. Because its edifying to consider how the Lord loves. But in a more technical sense, I believe it fits the better with the wheat and tares timeframe of Matt 24:31. I don't see that as the rapture but the bringing of the wheat into the barn. Although i like what Andy Woods does with John 14 and "I will come again." Could it be an echo to the rapture? Yes perhaps, amen. Same God, same attitude. Amen.
Blessings.
Hol
Well-known
Hi there TCC, I’ve been meaning to ask you about your views on the timing of the rapture. (If you feel like having a conversation about my questions.)
Two specific questions: 1) do you think that maybe the woman in Rev. 12 is the church?, and 2) do you think that the tribulation temple is the millennial temple?
I remember you used to attend John McArthur’s church. I had a friend who got me into following him for a bit. To me he seemed like a regular dispensational kinda guy? I didn’t follow his YouTube stuff that long.
TCC
Well-known
Hi Hol, thanks for asking. I'll go in reverse order. Macarthur is what he called a leaky dispensationalist. Meaning that God has a rejoining plan with Israel the nation, there is a pretrib rapture, and there is a tribulation. Andy Woods believes Macarthur is a leaky covenentalist (not dispensationalist). Covenentalism believes a) Redemption -- Father and Son plan to redeem humanity in eternity past (God gives Son a people, Son redeems, Son gives them back to the Father), b) Adam and Eve were under a works covenant with God, b) covenant of Grace--God provides Messiah. This is sometimes confused as the many different covenants (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, New Covenant) found in the Bible. Two different things. Below are two links about that if interested. Covenant theology is reformed and in its rawest sense historically would support replacement theology (which Macarthur would not ascribe to).
Dispensational and Covenant Theology - Christ Over All Overview
What is “Covenant Theology” (and should we care)? - Paul Benware Ministries Problems With
Macarthur is a dispensationalist as far as there is a different plan for the nation of Israel. But Macarthur otherwise is a covenentalist. If that makes sense?
2) Temple (tribulation/Millenial) -- I don't know. Most of my life I saw they are two separate things. I suppose they could be the same temple. But there is not that much support on that. I would just say, its possible. I have not studied too much. There is one theory out there by reputable study that sees one in the same. If so it aligned temple build start timing to be on Nissan 10 (Ez 40) by not later than Nissan 10 2025 (factoring in the sabbath year cycles of 49/50 years). This date this year is April 8. I don't expect a temple to be started in April.
3) Rev 12 Woman as Church -- No. Revelation 12:13-14 indicates the woman remains on earth. And is given a safe place in the wilderness during the second half of the tribulation. The women, to me, is Israel during the time AC wants to destroy her. And 12:17 demonstrates I believe end time gentile saints during the tribulation.
I believe the child in Rev 12 is the church. Christ was the head. We are the body. I would see the child going to heaven as the church rapture, while Israel stays on earth. I believe the language of red dragon standing before the woman (12:4) is a picture of Christ (the head) and the church at the time of Ez 38 (the body). So for what looks like a red dragon threat to devour her child, to me, is actually biblical theatrical language disclosing rapture timing (Ez 38). Very multi-dimensional poetic lanaguage I would say. Hope this helps clarify my view on that. Blessings.
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