IS THIS OUR KINGDOM?

[1LoverofGod]

By Jonathan Brenter

The claim that Jesus is already reigning over the nations is extremely popular in churches today. Its pastors preach that Jesus is fulfilling the words of Psalms such as 2, 46, 96, and 110 at this moment.

In light of the prevalence of such beliefs, we must ask several questions. Does what we see in our world reflect the character of what we would expect from Jesus’ reign upon the earth? Is our current experience of a kingdom the one to which the New Testament says we are heirs? Does Scripture support the widespread belief that Jesus has already received the nations as His inheritance from the Father as Psalm 2:8 says will happen?

Please don’t dismiss this as a theological discussion with no significance for you. The nature of Jesus’ rule over the nations has profound implications for us. Is our current experience the promised kingdom that the New Testament says we will inherit? Or, does Jesus’ reign over the nations of the earth await a future fulfillment?

I believe we can refute the claim that Jesus now reigns over the nations on the basis of the answer to one critical question:
Does what we see in our world at this moment match what Scripture tells us about the character of the Messiah’s rule?
More

The Claim that Jesus Now Reigns Over the Nations Dishonors Our Savior — Jonathan Brentner

The claim that Jesus is already reigning over the nations is extremely popular in churches today. However, is this the rule of Jesus over the nations of the earth? Is our current experience the kingdom to which the New Testament says we are heirs? What is this kingdom to which the Bible says we are

www.jonathanbrentner.com

 

[Andy C]

From the article:

JESUS’ GLORY WILL FILL THE EARTH​

The Bible also tells us that someday “the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea’ (Habakkuk 2:14, see also Isaiah 11:9). I think we can all agree that this is not today.

Although as believers we participate in the new covenant because of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf, it still awaits a greater fulfillment for Israel. Pay close attention to the words of Jeremiah 31:31-34:

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

 

[Kaatje]

The claim that Jesus is already reigning over the nations is extremely popular in churches today.

If that were the case, them scoffers would be right......
(2 Peter 3:3)

 

[Armor of Light]

I believe the gentile times have ended

From Jack Kelly

Home » Ask a Bible Teacher » The Last One Saved
Q
My daughter and I were discussing two statements in the Bible, one about “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” in Luke 21:24 and the other one is Romans 11:25, “when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in”. That that means there is ONE person who will be the final Gentile to be saved, and I believe this means before the rapture. If so, then it would appear that NO Gentile will be saved during the tribulation. If that is the case, are all the tribulation saints that are killed Jewish? Does that mean any Christians in name only who will be left behind at the rapture would not have any possibility of getting saved during the tribulation as possibly indicated by 2 Thess. 2:11-12?
A
I believe that Romans 11:25 indicates that the Church will have a predetermined number of members and when that number is reached we’ll all disappear. That means that there’s a last one saved before the Rapture. But that person won’t be the last one to ever be saved.
2 Thes. 2:11-12 refers to those who have heard and rejected the Gospel before the anti-Christ is revealed. It doesn’t apply to any who are undecided when the Church disappears or who haven’t heard the Gospel.
So there will still be lots, perhaps millions, of gentiles saved during the Tribulation, they just won’t be in the Church and will miss out on many blessings only the Church can receive. Some will be martyred for their faith and others will survive to help re-populate the planet during the Millennium. Getting saved before the rapture is a much better deal.

The Last One Saved – Grace thru faith

gracethrufaith.com

 

[Kaatje]

What are the times of the Gentiles?​

In Luke 21:24, Jesus speaks of future events, including the destruction of Jerusalem and His return. He says that “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (ESV). A similar phrase is found in Romans 11:25, which says, “A partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in” (ESV). Does the Bible tell us what the phrase “times of the Gentiles” means?

The Old Testament does not contain this exact phrase, but there are references that seem to match up. Ezekiel 30:3 points to “a time of doom for the nations” in connection with the Day of the Lord. Daniel’s series of visions deals with Gentile world powers and their role in God’s plan for the earth. Nebuchadnezzar’s image of gold, silver, bronze, iron, and clay (Daniel 2:31–45) represents successive Gentile kingdoms that will dominate until Christ returns and establishes His reign. Daniel’s vision of the four beasts (Daniel 7:1–27) likewise speaks of four kings, or nations, which will dominate for a time until Christ comes to rule forever. The vision of the ram and the goat (Daniel 8:1–26) gives more detail about these Gentile rulers and the time involved in their dominion. In each of these passages, the Gentiles have dominion over the world, including the Jewish people, for a time, but God will ultimately subdue them all and establish His own kingdom once and for all. Each prophecy culminates with a reference to Christ’s kingdom, so the “times” of these Gentile rulers would be all the years between the Babylonian Empire of Nebuchadnezzar and the glorious return of Christ to establish His kingdom. We are now living in “the times of the Gentiles,” that is, in the era of Gentile domination.

When we examine the book of Revelation, we find similar references to the time of Gentile dominion ending with the return of Christ. In Revelation 11:2, John indicates that Jerusalem will be under Gentile rule, even though the temple has been restored. The armies of the Beast are destroyed by the Lord in Revelation 19:17–19, just before the millennial reign of Christ is initiated.

Looking again at Luke 21:24, we see that Jesus mentions a time in which Jerusalem is under the dominion of Gentile authority. Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Jerusalem in 588 BC began that period, and it has continued through the present time. Romans 11:25 gives us a hint as to God’s purpose in the times of the Gentiles: the spread of the gospel throughout the whole world. The organization and inventions of the pagan world powers have actually aided the evangelism of the world. For example, in the first century, it was the widespread use of the Greek language and the network of Roman roads that allowed many people in far-off lands to hear the gospel.

One theme of Romans 11 is that, when the Jewish people rejected Christ, they were temporarily cut off from the blessings of a relationship with God. As a result, the gospel was given to the Gentiles, and they gladly received it. This partial hardening of heart for Israel doesn’t preclude individual Jews from being saved, but it prevents the nation from accepting Christ as Messiah until His plans are finished. When the time is right, God will restore the entire nation, and they will come to faith in Him once again, ending “the times of the Gentiles” (Isaiah 17:7; 62:11–12; Romans 11:26).

What are the times of the Gentiles? | GotQuestions.org

What are the times of the Gentiles? When will the fullness of the Gentiles have come in?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Andy C]

Do you believe in a pre trib rapture?

 

[Andy C]

What I believe that means when I say that is that I believe the gentile times have ended and because of that Jesus is now ruling in heaven over the earth.

If the times of the gentiles has ended, then how can Christians still be here, and not taken in the rapture?

 

[Kaatje]

I understand many believe in the rapture, but I disagree that the rapture is in scripture.

Dear BB1956, please read our Scriptural Truths before posting anything further.

Thread 'Scriptural Truths'
https://christiancommunityforum.com/threads/scriptural-truths.10/.

"The Rapture of the Church is real. Jesus has promised to remove us from the earth before the wrath of God is visited upon the inhabitants of this planet (1 Thessalonians 1:10, 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53)."

"No posts will be permitted that deny any of these God-given truths."

 

[Armor of Light]

Or you could stay here and learn as there is Scripture to fully back up exactly what we believe, but it is your choice and we respect that.

 

[mattfivefour]

I understand many believe in the rapture, but I disagree that the rapture is in scripture. It's my belief that the scriptures speak of a resurrection of the dead, not a rapture. So at the time that Jesus begins ruling in heaven, those who have died and belong with Jesus and will be in that heavenly Messianic kingdom with Jesus and who will be kings and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom will be resurrected first. Then those who are still alive on earth who also will be kings and priests with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, these at the moment of their death, however they die, will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and caught up to be with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom. Once all these who will be kings and priests with Jesus are all in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, there will be those who are on earth who have been judged worthy of life by God, and who will be subjects of that heavenly Messianic kingdom. These will remain on Earth and kept safe by God while Armageddon is happening on earth. Those in that heavenly Messianic Kingdom, meaning Jesus and those who are kings and priests with him in that heavenly Messianic kingdom will rule over these people on earth. The reason these people on earth are judged worthy of being survivors of Armageddon is because these people who are subjects of the heavenly Messianic kingdom, helped and supported those people who were the heirs of the kingdom, who were going to be the kings and priests in that heavenly Messianic kingdom, while they were on earth.
The point I'm trying to make here is that there will always be human beings living on this planet.

That's an interesting view you have. But I'm curious as to what scriptures you have that support the various statements you make above. Perhaps, though, we should start with the scriptures you believe show there is no harpazo (rapture). After all, doctrine must to be built on scripture or it is just opinion. So please, let's discuss this.

 

[Batman]

A simple 3rd grade reading of the scriptures seems to fit the bill for understanding that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is not sitting on a throne in the new Ezekiel temple with massive, beautiful buildings all around it, with peace across the entire planet, with virtually no sin/rebellion in sight, with the Kings of the nations paying homage in obedience to Christ, with the dead in Christ resurrected and reigning with Him, with no starvation, with animals loving and kind and gentle to each other and humans, with Israel at the top of the nations.

 

[Matthew6:33]

A simple 3rd grade reading of the scriptures seems to fit the bill for understanding that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is not sitting on a throne in the new Ezekiel temple with massive, beautiful buildings all around it, with peace across the entire planet, with virtually no sin/rebellion in sight, with the Kings of the nations paying homage in obedience to Christ, with the dead in Christ resurrected and reigning with Him, with no starvation, with animals loving and kind and gentle to each other and humans, with Israel at the top of the nations.

I always had such a hard time with Preterists too because they believe similar and won't read at the 3rd grade level; instead, they prefer to believe Revelation happened in 70AD, and the Kingdom of God has come and it is a "spiritual kingdom." Nonsense.