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Hope For Our Times Midweek Bible Prophecy Update

1LoverofGod

Well-known
Tom Hughes interviews
Christian Journalist
Bill Koenig known for his book
Eye for An Eye.

This is a great interview as Bill breaks down what's behind the Abraham Shield Plan and how it will work along side The Abraham Accords.

Bill points out the problems of concern over the appointments Trump has made to deal with Israel that won't go well for Israel.

Bill attended the Prayer Breakfast at Maralago in December and he spoke with someone who is close to Mike Huckabee regarding Trump being with the biblical view in dealing with Israel.

Various topics discussed that have to do with Israel, like
Turkey, Russia, Iran, Syria, United Nations,

Video Time: 39 minutes

 
@Margery
You will be interested in what
Bill has to say in the first half of the video.

It was an EXCELLENT interview. Appreciate letting me know. I don't always watch Tom, although he's on my feed, unless it's someone I particularly want to hear. Koenig is one of the people I drop what i'm doing to listen to.

Tom kept getting the Abraham Accords confused with the Peace and Prosperity Plan. But he let Bill speak which was good.

Bill was good about tracing what happened when the P&P plan came out although he still uses coded phrases for Covid.

The day that came out, was the day Covid really got going in North America.

That was shelved in order to have the Abraham Accords. Bill made an interesting point about some pressure the Saudi crown prince MBS was inserting into that AA deal, that didn't end up being done. At least I think that is what he said.

Bill was also able to touch on another point of confusion which is the Abraham Shield thing which is Obama/Biden/Israeli Left repackaged, and is a land for peace deal.

Then there is the Hostage deal.

He connected the dots to the Polar Vortex the day that Trump's negotiator was pressuring Netanyahu to accept the hostage deal immediately or face consequences. Bill was very concerned about the team players that are working the Middle East for Trump with the exception of Huckabee.

That Hostage deal continues to reward terrorism and hostage taking with huge payoffs. Israel is forced to let go multiplied times serious killers, who are behind bars for good reason for the hostages. It's great to have the hostages coming home, even if it's body bags, but this ensures future hostage taking. It pays big. Especially when the American negotiator for Trump forces it on Netanyahu who knows better.

The amount of confusion between the other 3 plans is staggering though. Tom Hughes isn't the only one I hear mixing them all up and seeing them as the same plan, different names, but they're not. Peace and Prosperity came first, then Abraham Accords, and just lately the Abraham Shield.

Satan is the author of confusion, so I think these 2 different Peace Plans (Peace and Prosperity - currently on the shelf, and Abraham Shield) plus the Abraham Accords have arrived together to muddy the understanding in the West. If Christians are having a hard time keeping them straight, there's a lot that can go sideways with clever diplomats.

It looks like they might expand stuff into the Abraham Accords which at present are just a glorified trade agreement with diplomatic ties between Israel, Bahrain, UAE and Sudan (in exchange for Sudan signing on, they got their terror status lifted so that wasn't completely peaceable). The Saudis aren't yet signed on. It will be interesting to see how the Accord changes to reflect the price the Saudi's want for their involvement.

For now that Shield thing is a nasty deal that just rehashes everything Biden's WH wanted. If it got forced onto Netanyahu the way this hostage deal was, things might get VERY rough and bumpy.

Put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised if they combine elements of both. Because that Shield plan has aspects that Mohammed Bin Salman, the Saudi prince has been wanting to try in his new NEOM city.

Rule by technocrats, not democratically elected officials. This is a favourite of the Israeli left, who have been using the Judiciary - the Israeli Supreme Court to rule over the elected leaders.

And a digital currency. Cash will be eliminated in the new and improved Gaza. This is something the Israeli left and the Saudi Crown Prince are in agreement on.

So I think we might see the nasty elements of the Abraham Shield inserted into the Abraham Accords, relying on the fact that few people know the difference. The names are so similar!!!!
 
It was an EXCELLENT interview. Appreciate letting me know. I don't always watch Tom, although he's on my feed, unless it's someone I particularly want to hear. Koenig is one of the people I drop what i'm doing to listen to.

Tom kept getting the Abraham Accords confused with the Peace and Prosperity Plan. But he let Bill speak which was good.

Bill was good about tracing what happened when the P&P plan came out although he still uses coded phrases for Covid.

The day that came out, was the day Covid really got going in North America.

That was shelved in order to have the Abraham Accords. Bill made an interesting point about some pressure the Saudi crown prince MBS was inserting into that AA deal, that didn't end up being done. At least I think that is what he said.

Bill was also able to touch on another point of confusion which is the Abraham Shield thing which is Obama/Biden/Israeli Left repackaged, and is a land for peace deal.

Then there is the Hostage deal.

He connected the dots to the Polar Vortex the day that Trump's negotiator was pressuring Netanyahu to accept the hostage deal immediately or face consequences. Bill was very concerned about the team players that are working the Middle East for Trump with the exception of Huckabee.

That Hostage deal continues to reward terrorism and hostage taking with huge payoffs. Israel is forced to let go multiplied times serious killers, who are behind bars for good reason for the hostages. It's great to have the hostages coming home, even if it's body bags, but this ensures future hostage taking. It pays big. Especially when the American negotiator for Trump forces it on Netanyahu who knows better.

The amount of confusion between the other 3 plans is staggering though. Tom Hughes isn't the only one I hear mixing them all up and seeing them as the same plan, different names, but they're not. Peace and Prosperity came first, then Abraham Accords, and just lately the Abraham Shield.

Satan is the author of confusion, so I think these 2 different Peace Plans (Peace and Prosperity - currently on the shelf, and Abraham Shield) plus the Abraham Accords have arrived together to muddy the understanding in the West. If Christians are having a hard time keeping them straight, there's a lot that can go sideways with clever diplomats.

It looks like they might expand stuff into the Abraham Accords which at present are just a glorified trade agreement with diplomatic ties between Israel, Bahrain, UAE and Sudan (in exchange for Sudan signing on, they got their terror status lifted so that wasn't completely peaceable). The Saudis aren't yet signed on. It will be interesting to see how the Accord changes to reflect the price the Saudi's want for their involvement.

For now that Shield thing is a nasty deal that just rehashes everything Biden's WH wanted. If it got forced onto Netanyahu the way this hostage deal was, things might get VERY rough and bumpy.

Put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised if they combine elements of both. Because that Shield plan has aspects that Mohammed Bin Salman, the Saudi prince has been wanting to try in his new NEOM city.

Rule by technocrats, not democratically elected officials. This is a favourite of the Israeli left, who have been using the Judiciary - the Israeli Supreme Court to rule over the elected leaders.

And a digital currency. Cash will be eliminated in the new and improved Gaza. This is something the Israeli left and the Saudi Crown Prince are in agreement on.

So I think we might see the nasty elements of the Abraham Shield inserted into the Abraham Accords, relying on the fact that few people know the difference. The names are so similar!!!!
I see the misunderstanding in the different plans too. But aside from the Abraham Shield plan, I can see a connection between the Abraham Accords and The Peace initiative.
Why? Because Saudi Arabia is at the core of both.
Abraham Accords will have more assurance of normalization between Arabs and Israel with Saudi Arabia signing on to it.
Then there's a Peace deal by Saudi Arabia that may be considered by Trump to support and it involves the two state plan between Israel and the Palestinians.
Read this article below and you'll see the connection between the Abraham Accords and A Peace Deal.
Tell me what you think about it....


Saudi Arabia Has Its Own 'Deal of the Century' for Trump​


As the Middle East prepares for the return of President-elect Donald Trump to the White House, Saudi Arabia is looking to strike a deal with Washington reflective of its ascending geopolitical status and the vast changes that have swept through the volatile region over the past four years.

Trump's election victory this month came as Washington and Riyadh remained locked in negotiations toward a grand deal that would include U.S. security assurances for Saudi Arabia and closer cooperation in various fields, such as nuclear development. At the same time, President Joe Biden's administration has also sought to establish diplomatic ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia in the vein of a series of agreements known as the Abraham Accords that Trump oversaw with four Arab nations in 2020.

If Trump seeks to expand his own legacy of normalizing Arab ties with Israel to secure the deal with Riyadh that has eluded the current administration, Saudi observers say the incoming U.S. leader will need to leverage his close ties with Israel in order to advance the cause of Palestinian statehood.

"There is one crucial thing the Trump administration must understand well: it is wishful thinking on their part to assume that Saudi Arabia will join the Abraham Accords for free," Salman al-Ansari, a prominent Saudi political analyst, told Newsweek. "A Palestinian state is a must and an absolute prerequisite for normalization with Israel."

Complete Article

 
I see the misunderstanding in the different plans too. But aside from the Abraham Shield plan, I can see a connection between the Abraham Accords and The Peace initiative.
Why? Because Saudi Arabia is at the core of both.
Abraham Accords will have more assurance of normalization between Arabs and Israel with Saudi Arabia signing on to it.
Then there's a Peace deal by Saudi Arabia that may be considered by Trump to support and it involves the two state plan between Israel and the Palestinians.
Read this article below and you'll see the connection between the Abraham Accords and A Peace Deal.
Tell me what you think about it....


Saudi Arabia Has Its Own 'Deal of the Century' for Trump​


As the Middle East prepares for the return of President-elect Donald Trump to the White House, Saudi Arabia is looking to strike a deal with Washington reflective of its ascending geopolitical status and the vast changes that have swept through the volatile region over the past four years.

Trump's election victory this month came as Washington and Riyadh remained locked in negotiations toward a grand deal that would include U.S. security assurances for Saudi Arabia and closer cooperation in various fields, such as nuclear development. At the same time, President Joe Biden's administration has also sought to establish diplomatic ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia in the vein of a series of agreements known as the Abraham Accords that Trump oversaw with four Arab nations in 2020.

If Trump seeks to expand his own legacy of normalizing Arab ties with Israel to secure the deal with Riyadh that has eluded the current administration, Saudi observers say the incoming U.S. leader will need to leverage his close ties with Israel in order to advance the cause of Palestinian statehood.

"There is one crucial thing the Trump administration must understand well: it is wishful thinking on their part to assume that Saudi Arabia will join the Abraham Accords for free," Salman al-Ansari, a prominent Saudi political analyst, told Newsweek. "A Palestinian state is a must and an absolute prerequisite for normalization with Israel."

Complete Article

Love your insight to look at MBS at the core of what's going on. There was some talk about them and the original Abe Accords, as that AA replaced the Peace & Prosperity Plan that gave Saudi Arabia fits. So at the core is MBS!

YES!!!! I didn't see that before, but now that you mention it....

You are so right because if we are on the verge of Ezek 38, then it stands to reason that anything going on of significance will include Saudi Arabia - along with Tarshish and young cubs - they ask that question of Russia and the invasion "have you come for spoil"


That hints at some kind of economic deal that affects the profits that Saudi Arabia can expect from their relationship to Israel. It stands out in sharp contrast to the way most Islamic countries treat Israel today and lines up with the lukewarm "support" that the Western democracies give Israel (and some of them might include the USA whether we consider them a descendant or cub of Britain - or the other contender for Tarshish, Spain)

So we should be looking for a deal that benefits Saudi Arabia (and possibly Tarshish and cubs) to show up in advance of Ezek 38.

I HOPE this Arab plan as outlined in Newsweek does NOT succeed because to quote the Newsweek article it calls for THIS:

"For Saudi Arabia, the answer to the conflict remains rooted in the Arab Peace Initiative, a 10-point proposal first introduced by the Kingdom and endorsed by the Arab League in 2002. The plan calls on Israel to concede all territories occupied after the 1967 Six-Day War, including East Jerusalem, parts of the West Bank, the Golan Heights and any other seized lands in exchange for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace, security guarantees and mutual recognition."

That is the Suicide borders rejected by Israel at all times. Not only does it permanently give up the original border of Israel in 1948 which was immediately violated by Jordan, Egypt and others, it means a 6 mile wide corridor between north and south in Israel, a lethal situation that the enemies of Israel would exploit ASAP.

I note that Saudi Arabia doesn't call for the original borders!

Thru the article it mentions that MBS wants some kind of deal- some payoff for them to sign any deal with Israel.

How about survival? They were terrified of Iran- maybe that terror has passed now that Israel has proven itself and Trump is the president of USA. I suspect Trump holds the winning hand

- The price of OIL!!!

Drill baby Drill means world oil supply will surge, dropping oil prices and cutting into Saudi Arabia (and Russia) main export that funds BOTH their economies and that is OIL. Biden all but ensured Russia could afford a war, as well as Iran AND poured money into Saudi Arabia when he cut off the oil drilling on US soil.

Trump opening up the oil in America undercuts Russia, Saudi Arabia AND IRAN!!!!

Saudi Arabia will beg him to do something.

I heard hints of this in several news clips- using a combo of tariffs and dropping world oil prices to affect the war in Ukraine as well as China, North Korea and others.
 
Love your insight to look at MBS at the core of what's going on. There was some talk about them and the original Abe Accords, as that AA replaced the Peace & Prosperity Plan that gave Saudi Arabia fits. So at the core is MBS!

YES!!!! I didn't see that before, but now that you mention it....

You are so right because if we are on the verge of Ezek 38, then it stands to reason that anything going on of significance will include Saudi Arabia - along with Tarshish and young cubs - they ask that question of Russia and the invasion "have you come for spoil"


That hints at some kind of economic deal that affects the profits that Saudi Arabia can expect from their relationship to Israel. It stands out in sharp contrast to the way most Islamic countries treat Israel today and lines up with the lukewarm "support" that the Western democracies give Israel (and some of them might include the USA whether we consider them a descendant or cub of Britain - or the other contender for Tarshish, Spain)

So we should be looking for a deal that benefits Saudi Arabia (and possibly Tarshish and cubs) to show up in advance of Ezek 38.

I HOPE this Arab plan as outlined in Newsweek does NOT succeed because to quote the Newsweek article it calls for THIS:

"For Saudi Arabia, the answer to the conflict remains rooted in the Arab Peace Initiative, a 10-point proposal first introduced by the Kingdom and endorsed by the Arab League in 2002. The plan calls on Israel to concede all territories occupied after the 1967 Six-Day War, including East Jerusalem, parts of the West Bank, the Golan Heights and any other seized lands in exchange for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace, security guarantees and mutual recognition."

That is the Suicide borders rejected by Israel at all times. Not only does it permanently give up the original border of Israel in 1948 which was immediately violated by Jordan, Egypt and others, it means a 6 mile wide corridor between north and south in Israel, a lethal situation that the enemies of Israel would exploit ASAP.

I note that Saudi Arabia doesn't call for the original borders!

Thru the article it mentions that MBS wants some kind of deal- some payoff for them to sign any deal with Israel.

How about survival? They were terrified of Iran- maybe that terror has passed now that Israel has proven itself and Trump is the president of USA. I suspect Trump holds the winning hand

- The price of OIL!!!

Drill baby Drill means world oil supply will surge, dropping oil prices and cutting into Saudi Arabia (and Russia) main export that funds BOTH their economies and that is OIL. Biden all but ensured Russia could afford a war, as well as Iran AND poured money into Saudi Arabia when he cut off the oil drilling on US soil.

Trump opening up the oil in America undercuts Russia, Saudi Arabia AND IRAN!!!!

Saudi Arabia will beg him to do something.

I heard hints of this in several news clips- using a combo of tariffs and dropping world oil prices to affect the war in Ukraine as well as China, North Korea and others.
Good points.
Saudi Arabia has deep Prophetic connections with Israel.
I have heard some say that MBS makes more of an Antichrist candidate than most have thought them to be.
I suppose because Saudi Arabia was under the Roman Empire rule and the AC is supposed to come out of the Revived Roman Empire.
I don't know whether he fits all of the description of the AC and I am not looking for the AC anyway but it's an interesting point that he could be a candidate especially with him having his Peace deal for Israel that includes separating the land into a two State plan.
The time I have been into end time prophecy I never thought of Saudi Arabia playing a major role other than the Ezekiel 38 Sheba and Dedan mentioned.
Interesting times to be in and watching the prophetic scriptures jump out of the pages of the Bible and play out in front of us in real time.
 
It was a very interesting informational interview. I sure hope dividing the land God gave Israel isn't going to be part of their plan. It will be too bad if they do. Mike Huckabee will have no part of this because he stays true to scripture. God will bless those who bless Israel, and curses those who curse Israel.
 
Interesting thread :) The way we look at things will be challenging, amen. As an example, it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the technocratic transition government over Gaza may not seem to be a great idea because it would not be elected officials. When we apply that logic to the EU, I think that is a good way to look at it. However, the middle east is kind of an exception I would say to a lot of rules. I'd like to explain why I would see it this way If I might.

It is said the same desire is for Saudi's Neom. From what I understand, the reason this would be the case of Neom is because that will be Saudi's national output in place of depleting oil supplies. So their future as they see it is in tourism. But Saudi Arabia has a nasty history of executing people. So in order to soften that bad edge they would place Neom under government not under Saudi jurisdiction. So travelers won't be afraid of being kidnapped and killed. It is a PR move by Saudi Arabai to invite other nation states to share in the government of Neom. So everyone feels safe to go there. Which makes sense. I would not want to go to Neom if the Saudi's ran it.

In a way, there are unique principles that exist in the middle east concerning Gaza. One suggestion in the past had been that if Gaza were governed by major Arab players in the region, it would quell the distrust of how Israel runs it, and remove them from the constant over the top bad PR Israel gets concerning that region. So if Gaza is to still exist (which I am not certain it will, but likely it might), having it governed by shared regional arab countries would actually result in less ability for the UN to dog Israel constantly. Is it a compromise? Yes. Does it remove some jurisdiction from Israel over the region? Yes. But in that part of the world, Gaza will be a sore spot for Arabs and Israel. And it will just go on and on and on. So if true peace is desired, then a reasonable solution for that region would be to have Arab nations that favor normalization with Israel (because they benefit from Israel) to govern Gaza together. Of course the downside is if Arabs form a coalition through Gaza to blackmail Israel, yeah that is not good. But if it is a real grass roots trend that Israel is becoming seen by the Araba world as a legimitate trading partner, Israel (for normalizing Arab countries) will be an asset Arab nations would want to protect.

We know what goes down in the future there. So I don't really see what we are looking at as belonging to the old school ways of observing that region best apply. Because what we might read into what occurs in Gaza might be either too attached to the way things had worked prior to a normalization. Or how horrifying it can become approaching a tribulation. I would see either of those extremes perspectives to be somewhat missing the "here and now" opportunity of what it means in the age of grace, post normalization. And that, to me, is a very different middle east.

When I was on JDF, Uturn (on that forum) was extremely dedicated to the most massive tracking of all things Ez 38 I had ever seen. More so than any other living human being. And his take that he personally shared with us back then was that Saudi normalization would be a main dominoe effect. Ez 38 cannot happen today. It cannot happen tomorrow. The conditions are very detailed. It would need a Saudi normalization and other nations also to strengthen the Abraham Accords...as well as very noticeable peace with Israel in that region. Uturn shared this after Oct 7 2023. While most of the watcher world was on the Psalm 83 war page, Uturn was seeing a Saudi normalization instead. And now we seem to be turning that corner. Amen.

. . . . .


What I noticed is tending to occur is that the Abraham Accords in eschatology circles is largely viewed as the deal the AC strengthens. With that view, some are calling the Abraham Shield that deal. That strengtheing. There are concerns of Ez 38 of course. But I believe it is seen much like Andy Woods view of it. That the deal with the many happens and then Ez 38. Which I believe tends to force the seals to perform in that sequence. But to me this does not make sense because Ez 38 is too huge a result of the deal with the many (only being a few months in). The big focus on the AC breaking of that covenant is in the middle of the tribulation. Not the next seal. An argument out of silence like this is not all that sound, granted. But in a practical way, how would Israel trust a deal with the many if an hour later they lose 2/3 of their country under it. It is for this reason I believe the deal with the many likely comes after Ez 38. And likely because of it. A severe need for Israel to have future protection in a unique covenant...makes a lot more sense. It does not square with the seals when viewed this way. But I believe the best approach to exegesis is start with the most clear. Not the least.

All in all, the trend i've noticed over the past 4 years in evangelicals majoring on the Abraham Accords as attached to AC. In my perspective that is looking at the tribulation through age of grace eyes. And I would see that what the Abraham accords mean to us, is not what it means to the tribulation. By looking too far afield in this way, can tend to miss what the here and now is about protentially. If the Abraham Accords belongs to the age of grace, then it is far more likely Ez 38 stage setup. Not its relation to the deal with the many. At least directly. Because the deal with the many is a tribulaiton age function. This would possibly be the best argument for seeing the age of grace and tribulation as two separate ages. And things that belong to our era matter in what they mean and express to our era. Not the tribulation one. But noticing how evangelicals major on the AC in the age of grace seems to be the predominant view by far. At least in every watcher ministry I have noticed. And for me that is more like looking at a wrong answer to an algebraic problem, looking for how we got the answer we think is good then by looking at the equation for how we get the incorrect answer. Just my take of course. But it would make sense that part of eschatology would be what we can't make sense of. And when we see that as loudly as we do today, it would be reason to consider that off views are likely there loudly to suggest its opposite. In this case, likely Ez 38 is the peace and safety we might over extend onto the AC. That view has become so primed, it would seem like looking at a different Bible to dissasociat peace and safety from the AC. But I think its a good idea to at least have as plan B, when Israel comes to arrive at it...and the church is still likely here. Just a thought.

I am interested in checking out that interview though Rose, it looks really interesting. Thanks for posting it. :) Blessings.
 
I hope that Trump doesn't try to divide the land that God gave Abraham for Israel. Genesis 12:3.
Me too. Amen. But I would see a normalization as the foundation of EZ 38. And if that means dividing Isreal, then Trump would be literally performing prophecy right before our eyes. We can see it in context to the Abrahamic Covenant violation. Or we can see it as Israel is in grotesque violation of that anyway...and had been the whole 70 years she has been prospering. I would not think Israel is operating under the Abrahamic Covenant today. Although we know God is. Who is patient beyond our understanding, amen. And who will be rescuing them post Ez 38 in a massive way. Because Israel is so far outside the Abrhamic Covenant on their side, I would not see overlaying the Abrahamc Covenant rules as applying in an age 30 seconds away from Ez 38. If that makes sense?

When I was on JDF, I got into a great very long conversation with someone who held the view that the Abrahamic Covenant is still in effect even if Israel does not hold her end of the covenant. What we discovered together in research challenged both of us. Amen. In the end it would appear that of course God will not dismiss that covenant. But there were definately aspects to that covenant that required Israel's coorperation. Of which she gives none today. So yeah, like at the end of the day, the best to make sense of that is is maybe understanding that what primes Israel for Ez 38 supercedes a covenant interaction (in temporality) of the Abraham Covenant. Not that God would not hold to account. But that God suspends it for Israel's sake. Lest God Himself wipe them out.

The other interesting feature of the Abrahamic Covenant issue is that it pertained to Joel 3:2

I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

That is where God will deal with that. At Armegeddon. But interesting here also to note. The reason God is holding nations accountable is for dividing the land for the purpose of dispersing Israel. In the age of grace where diplomacy is in force in the middle east, negotiations in how honestly to establish peace for Israel (by virtue of how to also work with the Arab nations for the sole purpose to benefit both parties) is not the same as dividing her to disperse her. Its to keep Isreal from being destroyed by neighboring Arab adversaries. Those are two completely different intensions. And we could see, bottom line God does not want Israel divided...period. Amen. But with Ez 38 in play, and Israel getting diaspora-ed by God for 2,000 years anyway, it would stand to reason that God would likely not see how Arab countries bargain with Israel (who forsook the Abrahamic Covenant) in our age the same as He might for those in their hearts interested in that as a ploy to divide Israel. Joel 3:2 is the heaviest verse we have for this. And it designates dividing Isreal for the purpose of removing her completely from her land. As some bad actors might mean and try that through Gaza, that is understandable. But the majority of the Arab world involved with that would be thinking of Gaza divided from Israel as a way to keep their negotiations with Israel as sound investments. And they would not want to see their investments running away from the country Israel--and America coming after them in her defense. This sort of configuration is why I would not see the Abrahamic Covenant "the issue" in the context we have unfolding today. Where God seems to be blessing Israel with an opportunity to benefit from trading with her Arab neighbors though is kind of how I would look at that sort of thing in progress. Blessings.
 
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