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Calling The Election Of Trump ‘Evil,’ John Piper Reminds Christians Why He’s Not Trusted

Hol

Well-known
(I posted this under False Doctrine because it is John Piper who is not trustworthy IMO)

After months of prayer and Christian leaders calling Believers to action, the American people earlier this month voted decisively to reject the anti-America and anti-God policies of the Democrat party and elect Donald Trump. It was a victory for the unborn, for children, for national security, for Biblical morality, for Israel, and for the church. And yet, well-known pastor John Piper was less than pleased with the results, referring to the re-election of Trump as an “evil.”

“Presidential election results. Having delivered us from one evil, God now tests us with another,” Piper wrote on X.

While his comments are troubling, especially considering the weight many in the church place on his opinion, it shouldn’t surprise us.

During the 2016 presidential election, Piper actively worked to dissuade believers from voting, saying at the time that both candidates (Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton) displayed “flagrant wickedness.” According to Piper, too many Believers feel “obligated” to vote, treating it as a “binding duty” to impact the nation that is not their home. During that election cycle, Piper told his congregants that, while he was intending to cast a vote, he had “no intention of voting for either of these presidential candidates.”

In 2020 and 2023, Piper carried on his efforts to discourage evangelicals from casting their votes, insisting that going to church every Sunday is more impactful than going to the ballot box and reiterating his stance of not voting for either candidate. On the topic of abortion, Piper snubbed the idea that “Roe and SCOTUS and Planned Parenthood” are effective battlegrounds to defend the unborn—a position that should have been corrected following the overturning of Roe v Wade and many States that now significantly protect life as a result.

 
Piper was very wrong to urge Christians not to vote. We all know that a refusal to vote would have been a vote for complete evil. I certainly don't think Trump is a paragon of Biblical values but he is definitely more on the side of decency and traditional Biblical values. We shall just have to wait and see how he does this second term.
 
Piper was very wrong to urge Christians not to vote. We all know that a refusal to vote would have been a vote for complete evil. I certainly don't think Trump is a paragon of Biblical values but he is definitely more on the side of decency and traditional Biblical values. We shall just have to wait and see how he does this second term.

Trump is the President of the USA, not of some Christian Nation that some wishfully think the USA is. His constituency is all Americans. Within that constituency you have a smallish number of true Believers, quite a few religious church goers, a good number of people who have no belief in God... and others, and Trump will be the President of all those groups.

I was content with Trump's efforts during his first term. I didn't like everything he did but I liked that he seemed to be trying to do right by the USA.
 
Sometimes pastors get lost among all the trees of holiness and holy living and teaching and proclaiming such, and lose sight of the forest. They lose the overview; and worse, they lead believers who follow them in the wrong direction. Nebuchadnezzar was not a holy man; neither was Cyrus. But God used them both, despite their own sin, to bless His people for His purposes. And I have little doubt God will use President Trump in the same way. Jesus Christ is our Savior; Trump is not. Trump is not even the savior of America; God is. And God has given us President Trump to accomplish His purposes. Hopefully, as Christians, we are in tune with those purposes.
 
(I posted this under False Doctrine because it is John Piper who is not trustworthy IMO)

After months of prayer and Christian leaders calling Believers to action, the American people earlier this month voted decisively to reject the anti-America and anti-God policies of the Democrat party and elect Donald Trump. It was a victory for the unborn, for children, for national security, for Biblical morality, for Israel, and for the church. And yet, well-known pastor John Piper was less than pleased with the results, referring to the re-election of Trump as an “evil.”

“Presidential election results. Having delivered us from one evil, God now tests us with another,” Piper wrote on X.

While his comments are troubling, especially considering the weight many in the church place on his opinion, it shouldn’t surprise us.

During the 2016 presidential election, Piper actively worked to dissuade believers from voting, saying at the time that both candidates (Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton) displayed “flagrant wickedness.” According to Piper, too many Believers feel “obligated” to vote, treating it as a “binding duty” to impact the nation that is not their home. During that election cycle, Piper told his congregants that, while he was intending to cast a vote, he had “no intention of voting for either of these presidential candidates.”

In 2020 and 2023, Piper carried on his efforts to discourage evangelicals from casting their votes, insisting that going to church every Sunday is more impactful than going to the ballot box and reiterating his stance of not voting for either candidate. On the topic of abortion, Piper snubbed the idea that “Roe and SCOTUS and Planned Parenthood” are effective battlegrounds to defend the unborn—a position that should have been corrected following the overturning of Roe v Wade and many States that now significantly protect life as a result.

When I hear the name “John Piper” I either stop reading whatever it is that I’m reading or run. Piper is part of “The Gospel Coalition,” and when you search for Piper’s and TGC’s beliefs on the Rapture, this is part what you will see:

“9 Reasons We Can Be Confident Christians Won’t Be Raptured Before the Tribulation”
The word for “meeting” the Lord in the air in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (apantesin) is used in two other places in the New Testament: Matthew 25:6 and Acts 28:15. In both places it refers to a meeting in which people go out to meet a dignitary and then accompany him in to the place from which they came out. One of these,Matthew 25:6, is even a parable of the second coming and so a strong argument that this is the sense of the meeting here in 1 Thess. 4:17—that we rise to meet the Lord in the air and then welcome him to earth as king.

2. The wording of 2 Thessalonians 1:5-7, when read carefully, shows that Paul expects to attain rest from suffering at the same time and in the same event that he expects the unbelievers to receive punishment, namely, at the revelation of Jesus with mighty angels in flaming fire. This revelation is not the pre-tribulational rapture but the glorious second coming. Which means that Paul did not expect an event at which he and the other believers would be given rest seven years before the glorious appearing of Christ in flaming fire. Vengeance on unbelievers and rest for the persecuted church come on the same day in the same event.

3. The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 suggests that the “assembling to meet him” is the same as “the day of the Lord” about which they are confused. But the assembling is the “rapture” and “the day of the Lord” is the glorious second coming. They appear to be one event.

Supporting this is the reference to “gathering” the elect in Matthew 24:31. Here there is a gathering (same word) but it is clearly a post-tribulational context. So there is no need to see the gathering and the day of the Lord in 2 Thessalonians as separate events.

4. If Paul were a pre-tribulationist why did he not simply say in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that the Christians don’t need to worry that the day of the Lord is here because all the Christians are still here? Instead he talks just the way you would expect a post-tribulational person to do. He tells them that they should not think that the day of the Lord is here because the apostasy and the man of lawlessness have not appeared. . . .

5. When you read Matthew 24 or Mark 13 or Luke 21, which are Jesus’ descriptions of the end times, there is no mention of a rapture removing believers from the events of the end. A normal reading gives no impression of a departure. On the contrary, he talks as if the believing listeners and then the readers would or could experience the things he mentions. See Mt. 24:4, 9, 15, 23, 25f, 33, etc.

6. Going through tribulation, even when it is appointed by God, is not contrary to Biblical teaching. See especially 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:3-10; Hebrews 12:3-11. But even so, Revelation 9:4 suggests that the saints will be in some measure protected in the time of distress by the seal of God.

7. The commands to “watch” do not lose their meaning if the second coming is not an any-moment one. See Matt. 25:1-13 where all ten maidens are asleep when the Lord returns. Yet the lesson at the end of the parable is, “Watch!” The point is that watching is not gazing up for an any-moment-return of the Lord; it is the moral vigilance that keeps you ready at all times doing your duty—the wise maidens had full lanterns! They were watchful!
Here’s a link to the entire mess if you’re interested:

🤯

Here’s another great resource from Thomas Ice - a response to Piper’s article on the above.

JOHN PIPER AND THE RAPTURE
Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

While I was looking for this I came across another “disturbing site, “https://sermons-online.org” which is a horrible site IMHO, because it carries every sermon by legitimate Pastors along with those we know to be false teachers. For example, Joyce “Name It Claim It” Meyers, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, etc., ad nauseum. It’s easy to see how new/younger believers can be easily led down a slippery slope when searching for sermons on sites like this who have really great men of God who teach from the Bible on the same site. Pastors like Dr. Billy Graham, Jack Hibbs, David Jeremiah are listed along with the wolves in sheep’s clothing.
😱😱Yikes!
 
I used to be in that camp. I liked Piper for a while. But I am no longer a Calvinist or in the Lordship Salvation camp. Its been about 10 years but It still feels rather fresh. I have a lot of my life wrapped up in all that. Life and death issue. Marriage issue. Very life defining times for decades. In some ways I see similar overtones in some watcher pockets. This forum is a pretty dang awesome batch of believers. We are from various places and all tend toward the main street evangelical end time view...but in nuanced ways...amen. Me too. If not that camp, I am not sure what camp...lol...I can best fit in. But ones like we have here would be the closest...amen.

But what I have noticed too is some kind of emotional craziness in the watcher camp. So I try when I post to bring something real and slightly raw to the table. Because we are never promised tomorrow. Accept, with Him of course, amen. I have no plans of going anywhere but some things schedule wise might be changing. But it might not affect much. We'll see. In any event, we could always have a cyber shut down and all we have is what we remember maybe for a while. So in the event as we approach our crazy 2025, I just want to say it has been an honor, a joy and a priviledge to hang out with you guys--just along the way.

Ok so where I would see kind of similarities in ways is what I noticed in the Lordship camp is ways to use scripture and biblical concept to lift their persona before us somewhat just a bit off the page. Which is ironic. Because most of that camp is cessassionist. Yet, pull off an amazing ability to kind of walk like an Apostle Lite lofer shoe...no sound...plush footing. Or SoftProphet...as Annointed. It is amazing to watch these men have incredible depth to lead people in the word while somewhat in an osmosis like way. In some ways do outright theater around you to blur the line of reality and fiction..and appear themsevles to just about be a parable themselves too. A postmodern mist or mistery of neo apostleship. And with it like the CIA blend in what seems to fit in as normal so they can reanimate definitions of what is "strange." Which leans you further in to their normal. Do not attempt to change the channel...their outter limits will cruise control you to the finish line. Be sure to be perfumated with them unto the entrance of His kingdom.

So take all that and see how that fits in the neo end time movements we see in evangelicals. To me, I might be sensitive to it because I've seen the scholarly version of fear porn and sensationalism. After see those sophisticated roads a lot of the other stuff we see in watcher context is pretty easy to spot as off. But even there, I do see some fairly groovy expert moves as well. The other thing is I don't believe either camp wants people not to think for themselves in ways. Those camps I think would be agassed if they thought what they were doing might feed into people not thinking for themselves. In my experience I kind of got chewed up like bubble gum...so I'm kind of over caring...lol. But I could see if I just let go, the watcher world would have picked me up where I left off to continue a thinking for myself motif via special delivery. Kind of scary actually to think along those lines. The important thing i believe is that where some camps do tend to do that, they, for me it is healtiest to always look for the best intent they mean. Because I do think it is there. But wow, if I were an old testament prophet or something, I would have probably come wearing bull horns and eatins scorpions...lol. Because the venom and force that channel biblically would not be pretty. Like Jeremiah was known as the weeping prophet. I probably would have been known as donkykong. Or like an over the top animated mad max prophet that lives in caves and holes and creams half the day. Not the thing anyone would go out in the desert to see. That's for sure.

Other than that, I'm fun at parties.

Blessings.

Oh yeah almost forgot the reason why I was posing. lol. Sorry. So yeah I think what we have today is God's awesome sense of humor. 7 years ago I watched a documentary about Syria. In those days there was much world focus on Syria. And some stories came back about just how many groups are down there trying to bring on Armegeddon...the end of the world prophetically. It was not a religious show. They were just looking at the mindset of the groups. So it was like a genuine take of some groups to many down there trying to do the end time thing kicking off Armegeddon or something like that. So I don't think that is what God is doing today. Or with Trump. But I would say it is more like God's comic book commentary on us. Not to be mean. But to challenge us to think about things. Him, each other, what matters n stuff. With a tongue-in-cheek one-two punch rodeo show of charismatica cartoona end timethica theater...popcorn included. okay...now...

Blessings.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Hol
When I hear the name “John Piper” I either stop reading whatever it is that I’m reading or run. Piper is part of “The Gospel Coalition,” and when you search for Piper’s and TGC’s beliefs on the Rapture, this is part what you will see:

“9 Reasons We Can Be Confident Christians Won’t Be Raptured Before the Tribulation”
The word for “meeting” the Lord in the air in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (apantesin) is used in two other places in the New Testament: Matthew 25:6 and Acts 28:15. In both places it refers to a meeting in which people go out to meet a dignitary and then accompany him in to the place from which they came out. One of these,Matthew 25:6, is even a parable of the second coming and so a strong argument that this is the sense of the meeting here in 1 Thess. 4:17—that we rise to meet the Lord in the air and then welcome him to earth as king.

2. The wording of 2 Thessalonians 1:5-7, when read carefully, shows that Paul expects to attain rest from suffering at the same time and in the same event that he expects the unbelievers to receive punishment, namely, at the revelation of Jesus with mighty angels in flaming fire. This revelation is not the pre-tribulational rapture but the glorious second coming. Which means that Paul did not expect an event at which he and the other believers would be given rest seven years before the glorious appearing of Christ in flaming fire. Vengeance on unbelievers and rest for the persecuted church come on the same day in the same event.

3. The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 suggests that the “assembling to meet him” is the same as “the day of the Lord” about which they are confused. But the assembling is the “rapture” and “the day of the Lord” is the glorious second coming. They appear to be one event.

Supporting this is the reference to “gathering” the elect in Matthew 24:31. Here there is a gathering (same word) but it is clearly a post-tribulational context. So there is no need to see the gathering and the day of the Lord in 2 Thessalonians as separate events.

4. If Paul were a pre-tribulationist why did he not simply say in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that the Christians don’t need to worry that the day of the Lord is here because all the Christians are still here? Instead he talks just the way you would expect a post-tribulational person to do. He tells them that they should not think that the day of the Lord is here because the apostasy and the man of lawlessness have not appeared. . . .

5. When you read Matthew 24 or Mark 13 or Luke 21, which are Jesus’ descriptions of the end times, there is no mention of a rapture removing believers from the events of the end. A normal reading gives no impression of a departure. On the contrary, he talks as if the believing listeners and then the readers would or could experience the things he mentions. See Mt. 24:4, 9, 15, 23, 25f, 33, etc.

6. Going through tribulation, even when it is appointed by God, is not contrary to Biblical teaching. See especially 1 Peter 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 1:3-10; Hebrews 12:3-11. But even so, Revelation 9:4 suggests that the saints will be in some measure protected in the time of distress by the seal of God.

7. The commands to “watch” do not lose their meaning if the second coming is not an any-moment one. See Matt. 25:1-13 where all ten maidens are asleep when the Lord returns. Yet the lesson at the end of the parable is, “Watch!” The point is that watching is not gazing up for an any-moment-return of the Lord; it is the moral vigilance that keeps you ready at all times doing your duty—the wise maidens had full lanterns! They were watchful!
Here’s a link to the entire mess if you’re interested:

🤯

Here’s another great resource from Thomas Ice - a response to Piper’s article on the above.

JOHN PIPER AND THE RAPTURE
Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

While I was looking for this I came across another “disturbing site, “https://sermons-online.org” which is a horrible site IMHO, because it carries every sermon by legitimate Pastors along with those we know to be false teachers. For example, Joyce “Name It Claim It” Meyers, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, etc., ad nauseum. It’s easy to see how new/younger believers can be easily led down a slippery slope when searching for sermons on sites like this who have really great men of God who teach from the Bible on the same site. Pastors like Dr. Billy Graham, Jack Hibbs, David Jeremiah are listed along with the wolves in sheep’s clothing.
😱😱Yikes!
I avoid John Piper like the Plague.
 
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