About The Gog Magog War :: By Ron Ferguson

[Andy C]

In the awful current situation in Israel, I see people are again raising the possibility that this could be the start of the Gog/Magog war. I am not criticizing any of the RR writers, as I think most are balanced in that matter. However, will you please consider this clarification I want to do at this time? It is always hard to break entrenched ideas, and these ideas aggregate over time, then coalesce, and then are never questioned.

I do not ever place myself as a fount of knowledge. I am always striving to come to the truth, but I am saying we must always examine the whole in context. For those of you who think the Gog war happens before the Rapture or happens early in the Tribulation, please consider what I am saying. I am setting out the case for the impossibility for that to happen.

Let us look at selections from Ezekiel 38 and 39 regarding this war.

About The Gog Magog War :: By Ron Ferguson

In the awful current situation in Israel, I see people are again raising the possibility that this could be the start of the Gog/Magog war. I am not

www.raptureready.com

 

[Andy C]

This is a very good read, and along the same lines as Andy Woods believes. Very compelling argument presented in regards to the timing of the Ezekiel Prophecy (38-39).

 

[1LoverofGod]

I don't see this as the "start" of the Ezekiel 38/39 war, but I do see the beginnings of the set up for it, because this current conflict is uniting the three major players of Ezekiel 38 war, Iran, Russia, and Turkey, but the groundwork is being setup, same as we see the set up being set for the Beast system laying down it's foundation.

It's more likely to see what's happening in the Middle East now to lead to the Isaiah 17 destruction of Damascus, which the prophecy teachers I listen to believe it will likely take place before the Tribulation begins.

Whatever comes of the Gaza warfront with Hamas, it's what's happening in the North, from Syria, that will add steam to Gog having that hook in his jaw draw Russia into the picture,
because though Hezbollah Has been striking from the North for some time as an Iranian proxy, Hezbollah has reportedly hesitated getting formally declaring a war with Israel,

Hezbollah Hesitates as Israel Strikes Gaza

LONDON — As Israeli troops move deeper south into the Gaza Strip with the goal of destroying Hamas, the world is closely watching what happens on Israel’s northern border, where its forces have engaged for weeks in intense clashes with another, more powerful foe, Hezbollah. Hezbollah, the...

news.yahoo.com

but I can see Israel getting where this "ceasefire " with Hamas isn't going to last, just as prior "cease fires" never have lasted, because Islam wants to annihilate Israel as a nation, because it's their religion, and written in their Koran that Intifada (rebellion against Israel) is in their "blood" until Israel is "wiped off the map", and Iran will continue to sponsor the terrorist's attacks for the same reason, to annihilate the one they call "little satan".

And the attacks from Hezbollah in the North will continue and it will come to the point where the IDF will have to make the decision because their existence is at stake, and Israel will have no choice but to take out Damascus because that's where Iran keeps it's missile stockpiles, to provide Hezbollah with the arsenal to strike Israel, and those missiles are primarily underground like at the Damascus airports.
Russia already has been condemning Israel and making "threats", and whenever Israel has made strikes in Damascus it infuriates Russia because Syria is Russia's ally, and has many interests in Syria.

Russia's Many Interests in Syria

Given its deep, multifaceted ties to Syria and its strategic posture toward the West, Moscow seems bent on supporting Assad to the bitter end.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

At the moment Russia has been very involved with the Ukraine war, and isn't ready to make a move on Israel.
And it's not for Russia to get militarily involved in this current conflict because it's not for Russia's interest, since the primary interest for Russia to come up against Israel will be Israel's wealth in resources as the Ezekiel 38:12-13 describes.

12" I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land."

Israel's riches at the moment are in oil, natural gas, and gold, all which have been in abundance as findings have been discovered just in this last century.


Now to the point of why this cannot be leading to Ezekiel 38/39 prophecy as of yet.....

This verse says it all very clearly...

11 "You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars."
Ezekiel 38:11

So, in order for Gog and Magog to be ready to "plunder" Israel, the state of Israel must be in a state of peace .
Israel isn't close to this state of peace yet.

I'm thinking that it will be The time of "false peace" that will be the result of the very "covenant Antichrist will confirm " of Daniel 9:27.

This Ezekiel war would more than likely be after the Rapture of the church.

 

[Andiamo]

11 "You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars."
Ezekiel 38:11

So, in order for Gog and Magog to be ready to "plunder" Israel, the state of Israel must be in a state of peace .
Israel isn't close to this state of peace yet.

I'm thinking that it will be The time of "false peace" that will be the result of the very "covenant Antichrist will confirm " of Daniel 9:27.

This Ezekiel war would more than likely be after the Rapture of the church.

As we see more things happen that are directly pointing to the eventual formation of Ezekiel 38, I have to come to the conclusion as above and agree with this, that it will happen after we are out of here. That said, goodness gracious it appears that we are very close to getting out of here!

 

[Cheeky200386]

This is a very good read, and along the same lines as Andy Woods believes. Very compelling argument presented in regards to the timing of the Ezekiel Prophecy (38-39).

Wow that was an AMAZING read! Thank you so much for sharing it and it makes perfect sense. I never really noticed some of those verses before and it fits perfectly to be at the Armageddon battle. All culminating with the Second Coming.

 

[Andiamo]

I just read an article that Russia is setting up observation stations close to the Golan Heights. Sorry I didn’t link it but I can’t find it now.

 

[mattfivefour]

Sorry I didn’t link it but I can’t find it now.

Russia sets up observation points in Syria near Golan Heights

New Russian observation posts have popped up in southwest Syria amid increased tensions between pro-Iranian groups and Israel amid the Israel-Hamas war.

www.al-monitor.com

 

[Andiamo]

Thinking now that maybe the burning of the weapons won’t be this big fire with terrible smoke rising up for years, but more like a smoldering pile in the ground. Still makes smoke but not nearly as much. Just trying to grapple with how this would look during the Millenium. (But, bottom line, WHO CARES? Haha! We will be with our King! It will all work out wonderfully, no matter what.)

 

[Andiamo]

So, in order for Gog and Magog to be ready to "plunder" Israel, the state of Israel must be in a state of peace .
Israel isn't close to this state of peace yet.

I'm thinking that it will be The time of "false peace" that will be the result of the very "covenant Antichrist will confirm " of Daniel 9:27.

This Ezekiel war would more than likely be after the Rapture of the church.

This is what clinches it for me Rose. I can see that there is no way Israel is going to be in a state of peace. Not until that covenant happens. They would have a good shot at rooting out their enemies quickly, but there are too many things (Nations!) coming against them at this time. They will probably be at war until we fly out of here. And the way things are going I can see how Israel May end up leveling Damascus out of sheer desperation.

 

[Margery]

I have always felt that the Gog Magog has to be after the Rapture for a very specific reason in the wording of Ezek 38&39.

God is explaining His purposes in there, and when He speaks of being made known among the nations (gentiles) thru His actions He is speaking of people who DON'T know Him.

Right now even the worst nations- all have some Christians in them. Those are the Salt and Light, the ones who KNOW Him. But this is an aspect of God judging and pouring out His anger on the people who DON'T know Him.

That implies that the Christians are gone already. Post Rapture.

God's attention seems focused on the Jews and Israel again, the church appears to be missing.

Therefore I think it has to be post Rapture.

But does it collide with the end of the Trib?????

I don't like to conflate the end of the Trib Armageddon period with the Gog Magog because of key differences.

The end of Gog Magog and the end of Armageddon do have a resemblance with the carrion eaters being invited to a feast of human flesh. The same with the burning of weapons for 7 years. That may or may not coincide with the 7 years of the Trib but just because something is similar or repeated, doesn't make it the same thing. Just like Antiochus Epiphanes in the Intertestamental period who is a type or forerunner of the Antichrist. Similar, but not the same.

I entertain possibilities. Maybe they are the same carrion feast, maybe the 7 years of burning weapons coincides with the 7 year period of the Trib, but maybe not.

I think the false peace covenant DOES fit nicely with the idea of Israel carefree and dwelling without fear of invasion. That could come about via the covenant with the AC OR it could come about after Israel wipes out her surrounding enemies, in some form of Bill Salus's Psalm 83 war or a combination with Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32. All of which speak of disaster coming to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc

Israel could then be in a state of rest/ false peace without a covenant, then Russia and what's left of Iran, plus Turkey, the Sudan, Libya and a few others invade as the Gog Magog invasion, God wipes them out and the AC forges the covenant in the aftermath (and might even take credit)

 

[Andy C]

I have always felt that the Gog Magog has to be after the Rapture for a very specific reason in the wording of Ezek 38&39.

God is explaining His purposes in there, and when He speaks of being made known among the nations (gentiles) thru His actions He is speaking of people who DON'T know Him.

Right now even the worst nations- all have some Christians in them. Those are the Salt and Light, the ones who KNOW Him. But this is an aspect of God judging and pouring out His anger on the people who DON'T know Him.

That implies that the Christians are gone already. Post Rapture.

God's attention seems focused on the Jews and Israel again, the church appears to be missing.

Therefore I think it has to be post Rapture.

But does it collide with the end of the Trib?????

I don't like to conflate the end of the Trib Armageddon period with the Gog Magog because of key differences.

The end of Gog Magog and the end of Armageddon do have a resemblance with the carrion eaters being invited to a feast of human flesh. The same with the burning of weapons for 7 years. That may or may not coincide with the 7 years of the Trib but just because something is similar or repeated, doesn't make it the same thing. Just like Antiochus Epiphanes in the Intertestamental period who is a type or forerunner of the Antichrist. Similar, but not the same.

I entertain possibilities. Maybe they are the same carrion feast, maybe the 7 years of burning weapons coincides with the 7 year period of the Trib, but maybe not.

I think the false peace covenant DOES fit nicely with the idea of Israel carefree and dwelling without fear of invasion. That could come about via the covenant with the AC OR it could come about after Israel wipes out her surrounding enemies, in some form of Bill Salus's Psalm 83 war or a combination with Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32. All of which speak of disaster coming to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc

Israel could then be in a state of rest/ false peace without a covenant, then Russia and what's left of Iran, plus Turkey, the Sudan, Libya and a few others invade as the Gog Magog invasion, God wipes them out and the AC forges the covenant in the aftermath (and might even take credit)

I also believe EZ 38 is after the rapture. However long the time is between the rapture, and the start of the tribulation IMO makes the most sense as to when the Russian led coalition moves to attack Israel.

 

[mattfivefour]

I have always felt that the Gog Magog has to be after the Rapture for a very specific reason in the wording of Ezek 38&39.

God is explaining His purposes in there, and when He speaks of being made known among the nations (gentiles) thru His actions He is speaking of people who DON'T know Him.

Right now even the worst nations- all have some Christians in them. Those are the Salt and Light, the ones who KNOW Him. But this is an aspect of God judging and pouring out His anger on the people who DON'T know Him.

That implies that the Christians are gone already. Post Rapture.

God's attention seems focused on the Jews and Israel again, the church appears to be missing.

Therefore I think it has to be post Rapture.

But does it collide with the end of the Trib?????

I don't like to conflate the end of the Trib Armageddon period with the Gog Magog because of key differences.

The end of Gog Magog and the end of Armageddon do have a resemblance with the carrion eaters being invited to a feast of human flesh. The same with the burning of weapons for 7 years. That may or may not coincide with the 7 years of the Trib but just because something is similar or repeated, doesn't make it the same thing. Just like Antiochus Epiphanes in the Intertestamental period who is a type or forerunner of the Antichrist. Similar, but not the same.

I entertain possibilities. Maybe they are the same carrion feast, maybe the 7 years of burning weapons coincides with the 7 year period of the Trib, but maybe not.

I think the false peace covenant DOES fit nicely with the idea of Israel carefree and dwelling without fear of invasion. That could come about via the covenant with the AC OR it could come about after Israel wipes out her surrounding enemies, in some form of Bill Salus's Psalm 83 war or a combination with Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32. All of which speak of disaster coming to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc

Israel could then be in a state of rest/ false peace without a covenant, then Russia and what's left of Iran, plus Turkey, the Sudan, Libya and a few others invade as the Gog Magog invasion, God wipes them out and the AC forges the covenant in the aftermath (and might even take credit)

Excellent thinking, Margery! I concur ... both with your conclusions and your uncertainties.

 

[Anastacia]

I have always felt that the Gog Magog has to be after the Rapture for a very specific reason in the wording of Ezek 38&39.

God is explaining His purposes in there, and when He speaks of being made known among the nations (gentiles) thru His actions He is speaking of people who DON'T know Him.

Right now even the worst nations- all have some Christians in them. Those are the Salt and Light, the ones who KNOW Him. But this is an aspect of God judging and pouring out His anger on the people who DON'T know Him.

That implies that the Christians are gone already. Post Rapture.

God's attention seems focused on the Jews and Israel again, the church appears to be missing.

Therefore I think it has to be post Rapture.

But does it collide with the end of the Trib?????

I don't like to conflate the end of the Trib Armageddon period with the Gog Magog because of key differences.

The end of Gog Magog and the end of Armageddon do have a resemblance with the carrion eaters being invited to a feast of human flesh. The same with the burning of weapons for 7 years. That may or may not coincide with the 7 years of the Trib but just because something is similar or repeated, doesn't make it the same thing. Just like Antiochus Epiphanes in the Intertestamental period who is a type or forerunner of the Antichrist. Similar, but not the same.

I entertain possibilities. Maybe they are the same carrion feast, maybe the 7 years of burning weapons coincides with the 7 year period of the Trib, but maybe not.

I think the false peace covenant DOES fit nicely with the idea of Israel carefree and dwelling without fear of invasion. That could come about via the covenant with the AC OR it could come about after Israel wipes out her surrounding enemies, in some form of Bill Salus's Psalm 83 war or a combination with Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49 and Ezekiel 32. All of which speak of disaster coming to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, etc

Israel could then be in a state of rest/ false peace without a covenant, then Russia and what's left of Iran, plus Turkey, the Sudan, Libya and a few others invade as the Gog Magog invasion, God wipes them out and the AC forges the covenant in the aftermath (and might even take credit)

As you probably all know, Andy Woods takes the position that Ez 38 happens after the rapture and Ez 39 is at the end of the Tribulation. I've never fully gotten on board with this because chapters 38 and 39 often sound like they are describing the same event. But the weapons burning (even into the Millennium) and the bird feast in 39 could align with Armageddon so, maybe?

 

[Spartan Sprinter]

As you probably all know, Andy Woods takes the position that Ez 38 happens after the rapture and Ez 39 is at the end of the Tribulation. I've never fully gotten on board with this because chapters 38 and 39 often sound like they are describing the same event. But the weapons burning (even into the Millennium) and the bird feast in 39 could align with Armageddon so, maybe?

It definitely is some interesting food for thought that he puts forward

 

[Tall Timbers]

Here's Arnold's take on the Posttribulation/Armageddon view for the timing of the Eze 38-39 war.

Taken from page 119 of Footsteps of the Messiah

The Posttribulation/Armageddon View

A second major view is that this invasion will take place at the end of the Tribulation period. The key basis of this position is identifying this invasion as the Campaign of Armageddon. Since the Campaign of Armageddon does indeed take place at the end of the Tribulation, and since Ezekiel 38 and 39 are viewed as being part of it by those who hold this view, they have concluded that the Russian invasion will occur at the end of the Tribulation.

However, there are a number of problems with this view. The key objection lies in the clear distinction between the Ezekiel 38-39 invasion and Armageddon. First, In Ezekiel there are definite allies mentioned and they are limited in number, while other nations stand in opposition. In the Campaign of Armageddon, all nations are allied together against Jerusalem without exception. Second, the Ezekiel invasion comes from the north, but the Armageddon invasion comes from the whole earth. Third, the purpose of the Russian invasion is to take the spoil; the purpose of the Armageddon Campaign is to destroy all the Jews. Fourth, in the Ezekiel invasion, there is a protest against the invasion; in the Armageddon Campaign, there is no protest because all the nations are involved. Fifth, the Ezekiel invasion is destroyed through convulsions of nature; the Armageddon invasion is destroyed by the personal Second Coming of Jesus the Messiah. Sixth, the Ezekiel invasion is destroyed on the mountains of Israel; the Armageddon Campaign is destroyed in the area between Petra and Jerusalem. Seventh, the Russian invasion takes place while Israel is living securely in the Land; the Armageddon Campaign takes place while Israel is in flight and in hiding.

Furthermore, this view fails to solve the problem of the seven months and seven years, since both would have to continue into the Millennium to be accomplished. Again, this is inconsistent with other revelation regarding the Kingdom, which starts out with a thoroughly cleansed earth.
_________________________________

I personally believe that any one of Arnold's problems listed for the Eze 38-39 war being at the end of Tribulation is sufficient to toss that idea out as not compatible with the Bible.

 

[Amethyst]

I have always felt that the Gog Magog has to be after the Rapture for a very specific reason in the wording of Ezek 38&39.

I hope so. That way we don't have to wait around for that to happen before I can anticipate the rapure.

 

[Andiamo]

I was just laying outside by my Mom’s pool, watching the clouds. I like to watch the clouds for any sign of maybe the corner of a robe, or a huge trumpet Anyway, I watched as the clouds were drifting toward each other. They seemed attracted toward the other’s moisture. No storm yet, but the movement showed they were coming together to make one big cloud.

I am SO spiritual