Megachurch punts bible off stage into crowd during an over the top Superbowl themed church service

[LydiaJoy]

OH Megachurch Pastor Punts Bible Across Stage For Superbowl-Themed Church Service

Crossroads Church is a multisite megachurch in Cincinnati, Ohio. Led by Senior Pastor Brian Tome,...

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Seeker-sensitive to the extreme, their mantra is “anything short of sin is up for grabs,” resulting in the frequent abomination that is their Superbowl Sunday sermon series.

Churches in the USA have really done downhill…I’m glad I didn’t grow up learning the word of God in this type of environment. Also, I can’t believe how much money they must have wasted on all this.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Churches in the USA have really done downhill…I’m glad I didn’t grow up learning the word of God in this type of environment. Also, I can’t believe how much money they must have wasted on all this.

Literally kicking a bible (God's Word that martyrs have died for and some would give anything to have a copy in countries where it is illegal or not in their language). Absolute disgrace!

If these aren't the last days I am afraid to see what is to come before we depart from here...

Father forgive them, they know not what they do... Wow...

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Disgracefully disrespectful





I feel the same way about modern services, in which the band is front-and-center instead of an altar, a song-leader or worship-leader instead of the Pastor leads the Congregation, the "music" is man-centered instead of God-centered, and the church is child-centered instead of God-centered (children allowed/encouraged to disrupt the service, disturb others' opportunity to worship and learn, and destroy any sense of reverence or sanctuary).

Don't get me started on people pretending to speak in tongues, dancing in the aisles, embracing/promoting sin as acceptable or even good, Pastors not taking charge and shepherding their flocks, Pastors not standing up against social zeitgeist, wrongful/sinful government edicts, and persecution, teaching and preaching contrary to the Bible, loss of denominational/church heritage, culture, and history, apostasy/heterodoxy invading the church, etc.

Maybe I'm an old stick-in-the-mud, but there is something seriously wrong when it's hard to tell the difference from secular social gatherings and the church, dumbing practices down instead of teaching how and why in an effort to be relevant, culturally sensitive, etc., and when a Pastor can't preach plainly about adult sin due to "tender young ears" present in the Sanctuary.

 

[Andy C]

Disgracefully disrespectful





I feel the same way about modern services, in which the band is front-and-center instead of an altar, a song-leader or worship-leader instead of the Pastor leads the Congregation, the "music" is man-centered instead of God-centered, and the church is child-centered instead of God-centered (children allowed/encouraged to disrupt the service, disturb others' opportunity to worship and learn, and destroy any sense of reverence or sanctuary).

Don't get me started on people pretending to speak in tongues, dancing in the aisles, embracing/promoting sin as acceptable or even good, Pastors not taking charge and shepherding their flocks, Pastors not standing up against social zeitgeist, wrongful/sinful government edicts, and persecution, teaching and preaching contrary to the Bible, loss of denominational/church heritage, culture, and history, apostasy/heterodoxy invading the church, etc.

Maybe I'm an old stick-in-the-mud, but there is something seriously wrong when it's hard to tell the difference from secular social gatherings and the church, dumbing practices down instead of teaching how and why in an effort to be relevant, culturally sensitive, etc., and when a Pastor can't preach plainly about adult sin due to "tender young ears" present in the Sanctuary.

I dont think I have ever attended a service that the pastor lead the singing. Like you, I prefer the older hymns, but that service is too early for my wife, plus children's bible school only goes during the second (contemporary) service.

 

[Matthew6:33]

Like you, I prefer the older hymns, but that service is too early for my wife, plus children's bible school only goes during the second (contemporary) service.

Hopefully they aren't contemporary enough to punt bibles

 

[Work4Peanuts]

(children allowed/encouraged to disrupt the service, disturb others' opportunity to worship and learn, and destroy any sense of reverence or sanctuary).

I think having children growing up in church is important, though, and children will occasionally act out. They have to be taught how to behave in church. We have a room where parents can take their misbehaving child and still catch the service, then come back in when the little one settles down. I myself have memories of being roughly hauled out of church when I got too boisterous and made to understand how to behave. I knew that I didn't want to do a repeat performance.

ETA: Our pastor has never shied away from sensitive topics just because of children in the sanctuary. He just uses langauge like the Victorians would have so it's not crass.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I dont think I have ever attended a service that the pastor lead the singing. Like you, I prefer the older hymns, but that service is too early for my wife, plus children's bible school only goes during the second (contemporary) service.

In a traditional liturgical Lutheran service, the Pastor leads everything spoken, acapella, with the organ (played by an organist), or some combination. No song leader or worship leader needed. Congregants have hymnals and/or bulletins, and traditionally by Confirmation age, know how to read music, chant and sing in both unison and parts, read, chant, and sing responsively, know many hymns and the liturgy, what everything means, and know how to use the hymnal. Organist, choir, musicians, orchestra, etc. still follow the Pastor's lead, although all work together. Sometimes, the choir and Congregation will chant acapella together or responsively to give the organist the opportunity to partake in Holy Communion and return to the organ to continue playing hymns as Holy Communion continues to be served. Etc., depending on the specific church. Nice tradition of the whole Congregation singing the liturgy and hymns in parts

Sounds complicated, but it's actually very orderly.

I just had to teach a young lady about no song leader or worship leader needed (or wanted) when she was working on the bulletin for Dad's (traditional) Lutheran funeral. She had no clue about a traditional service and thought a song leader or worship leader was needed for everything. She snuck into the Sanctuary for the service to see/hear/learn and was thoroughly amazed that people there for the funeral didn't need someone to show us what to do, etc. Sad that our young people are being cheated out of their heritage by never learning it, and the traditional liturgical worship, with all its rich symbolism, is dying

 

[Hol]

I am shocked. That mega-church has a low view of God's Word.

A.W. Tozer chastised his worldly church (1950-ish) for excessive efforts to imitate Hollywood actors and other materialistic goals. If memory serves me, he told them that he'd visited a church in the Netherlands and at the start of the service a Bible would be brought to the pulpit by an usher and everyone would stand.

BTW, most of his sermons were recorded and are available to listen to.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I think having children growing up in church is important, though, and children will occasionally act out. They have to be taught how to behave in church. We have a room where parents can take their misbehaving child and still catch the service, then come back in when the little one settles down. I myself have memories of being roughly hauled out of church when I got too boisterous and made to understand how to behave. I knew that I didn't want to do a repeat performance.

ETA: Our pastor has never shied away from sensitive topics just because of children in the sanctuary. He just uses langauge like the Victorians would have so it's not crass.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about children in the main Sanctuary, versus in a Children's Church led by a real Pastor.
I do believe we do agree it's critical children learn proper behavior, what and why things are done in the worship service, and Bible truths.

Regarding sermons about adult sin, etc. It's not just the words used that could create issues for children. Sometimes it's the content, and there's no nice way to preach plainly about it so there's no misunderstandings or minimizing the issues, without being explicit. Especially in the context of the current social zeitgeist, lax, nonexistent, and widely varying non-Biblical morals and standards, and varying primary languages and cultures. The days of "everyone" in a particular church having the same/similar backgrounds and being products of a majority-Christian culture are long gone.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I am shocked. That mega-church has a low view of God's Word.

A.W. Tozer chastised his worldly church (1950-ish) for excessive efforts to imitate Hollywood actors and other materialistic goals. If memory serves me, he told them that he'd visited a church in the Netherlands and at the start of the service a Bible would be brought to the pulpit by an usher and everyone would stand.

BTW, most of his sermons were recorded and are available to listen to.

In some churches that have a processional, the Bible is part of it, and everyone rises at the beginning of the processional and faces the rear of the Sanctuary and the cross and Bible, turning as the processional goes by to continue facing them. The Sunday church I go to still does this, and there's a recessional . . . On festivals (holidays), the procession comes back down from the front into the midst of the Congregation for The Gospel reading (chanting) then returns to the altar area.

Some places, the Bible remains on the altar and isn't part of the processional and/or recessional.
Since Jesus is The Word in the flesh, kicking a Bible, which is The Word of God, is like kicking Jesus

 

[Andy C]

In some churches that have a processional, the Bible is part of it, and everyone rises at the beginning of the processional and faces the rear of the Sanctuary and the cross and Bible, turning as the processional goes by to continue facing them. The Sunday church I go to still does this, and there's a recessional . . . On festivals (holidays), the procession comes back down from the front into the midst of the Congregation for The Gospel reading (chanting) then returns to the altar area.

Some places, the Bible remains on the altar and isn't part of the processional and/or recessional.
Since Jesus is The Word in the flesh, kicking a Bible, which is The Word of God, is like kicking Jesus

I have not attended any services such as you have described, other than one time I attended a Catholic service with a relatives family.
What are the differences between your traditional service and a traditional Catholic service?

 

[Baby Yoda]

I have not attended any services such as you have described, other than one time I attended a Catholic service with a relatives family.

Growing up I never saw this. The processional where the priest came out he was carrying a large crucifix.

 

[Baby Yoda]

Hopefully they aren't contemporary enough to punt bibles

Were never any Bibles around to punt in our RCC. There were a lot of altar boys though.

 

[Andiamo]

How can any Christian kick a Bible when there are people in North Korea who literally risk death to have one? We have entire churches in persecuted countries that share just one Bible among them…meanwhile these doofuses are treating the Bible like a prop.

 

[Andiamo]

The photos of that church service are ludicrous. What a den that place is.

 

[Everlasting Life]

I think it would be good for a church to model great respect and reverence for the Word of God. The incredible benefits of treating the bible with great reverence for the church to see cannot be overestimated. I've appreciated seeing the congregation of a church we've attended before, stand up in respect as the passage for the sermon is being read together.

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I have not attended any services such as you have described, other than one time I attended a Catholic service with a relatives family.
What are the differences between your traditional service and a traditional Catholic service?

The two services are similar (and similar to other liturgical denominations). Remember that Martin Luther started out trying to reform RCC, not get rid of everything. Both liturgical services are from the service that was handed down based on early church documents, both are formal, both have seasonal liturgical colors for paraments/altar linens/clergy attire, both use a lexicon that prescribes/suggests certain Bible passages for certain weeks during the Church year (1, 2, and 3-year lexicons available). Many different churches and denominations use some sort of lexicon or list to match Bible passages with the church calendar, so passages heard in various churches and denominations will often be the same/similar topics throughout the year. This is most evident during Advent, Christmas, Lent, Holy Week, Ascension, and Pentecost.

In the Lutheran church, which is still actively and publicly protesting the RCC, NO praying to or veneration of Mary, the saints, or the Pope, and especially NO co-redemptrix or mediator other than Christ. Whoever the current Pope is or was, is and has been historically considered to be, the spirit of antichrist. For those of us closet premillennialists (and open premillennialist Luthren Brethren), what a picture!
NO confessional booth or penance before being admitted to Holy Communion However, there is public, corporate confession and announcement of Grace/forgiveness at the beginning of the Lutheran service. I find this very comforting, as it's a constant reminder of the work of Christ being sufficient for every sin I have ever committed or will ever commit, and that His righteousness is imputed to me, so God sees Jesus instead of me and doesn't see my sin.
NO works-based Salvation.
The bread and wine do NOT become human flesh and blood, although Jesus is believed to be present in, over, under, and next to the bread and wine after consecration (Martin Luther wrote about this and backed with Scripture; most here believe only symbolic). This ceases after Holy Communion is over, so NO monstrous or special cabinet for previously consecrated elements, and if there's a dropped host(s) or spilled wine, it's simply an accident, NOT a sin. Holy Communion is a great comfort to me, as well, as being a constant reminder of the blood of Christ covering and washing away my sin and reconciliation with God and each other.
NO apocrypha read as part of the Scripture.
NO prohibition on clergy marrying, and Pastor's wives are usually very active in the church/supporting her husband, but are not Pastors/co-Pastors (except in very liberal ELCA/other liberal churches).

I'm "sure" I've left out/missed some differences between Catholic and Lutheran liturgical services [sigh] FWIW, there's at least one Baptist church in the Twin Cities that has one traditional service, so even traditionally non-liturgical denominations and churches might have such a service. Traditional liturgical worship services are a worship style, just as modern services are a worship style.

Hope this helps, and much more importantly, hope it doesn't start any squabbles . . .

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

How can any Christian kick a Bible when there are people in North Korea who literally risk death to have one? We have entire churches in persecuted countries that share just one Bible among them…meanwhile these doofuses are treating the Bible like a prop.

and



Some persecuted, underground, and poor churches don't even have ONE Bible. Sometimes one Bible is divided up and shared/passed around among several churches. Some places, people have to hand-copy passages from other people, who have had to hand-copy passages, who have had to hand-copy passages, who have had to hand-copy . . . and possession of any of this, or mere suspicion of such, is an automatic death sentence.

I've been places in which a visiting Christian leaves his or her Bible(s) (and hymnals, etc.) with the Pastor of the local underground church they had been invited to because Bibles (and hymnals, etc.) are rare, unobtainable, nonexistent, etc. It's a great blessing to be able to gift one's Bible to someone (or a whole church) that has none.

I even feel bad if (when) my Bible falls off my bed onto the floor [sigh]

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

I think it would be good for a church to model great respect and reverence for the Word of God. The incredible benefits of treating the bible with great reverence for the church to see cannot be overestimated. I've appreciated seeing the congregation of a church we've attended before, stand up in respect as the passage for the sermon is being read together.

Standing to hear The Gospel read is traditional.
Some places, people also stand for the Old Testament and Epistle readings.

Standing, especially for The Gospel reading/chanting, demonstrates respect and reverence for God and The Word and calls special attention to it because it's special

 

[Ghoti Ichthus]

Were never any Bibles around to punt in our RCC. There were a lot of altar boys though.

You mean there weren't pew Bibles alongside all the pew hymnals?